Mary Lincoln Extra Credit Questions

[Gene C]

I thought it might be a secret, romantic "meeting" with Mary?
Which reminds me of a song. I'll have to save it for later.

Fortunately I am reminded of a more generic "meetin" song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whKyWRYkVQ4
(There's A Meetin Here Tonight by the Limeliters)

[Amy L.]

It's my 2nd-hand understanding that the "foolish and uncalled for rencontre" happened because of Mary Lincoln.

(I haven't studied these Sangamon contributions, only read two of the letters signed Rebecca. Might anyone know of a modern publication that "proves" A. Lincoln wrote the letter that is attributed him?? It's so good.)
(Also - Is it recorded for posterity exactly what from those series James Shields found so offensive? Hand-holding? Puffy cat fur? The Bank War had been going on for three election-cycles... As someone in the public spotlight of politics, did ridicule not go with the territory?)

[Donna McCreary]

(11-08-2022 06:48 PM)mbgross Wrote:  

(11-06-2022 08:42 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(10-30-2022 04:00 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Bingo, Gene! IMO, Jason has attempted (in his books) to be reasonably balanced in his coverage of Mary. Not all good, not all bad. I did not think he would change. I was surprised to read that he now seems to be more in agreement with Burlingame's negativity toward Mary than he used to be.

Source of Jason Emerson's review: The Journal of the Abraham Lincoln Association, Fall, 2022.

Truth to be told I found his "The Madness of Mary Lincoln" totally as negative as Burlingame (pro-Robert, anti-Mary past century male attitude). The title alone speaks for itself.

I agree completely. The term "madness" was last used in the medical field as an acceptable term around 1825. It only added to the circus like freak show atmosphere, that has always, unfortunately, surrounded Mrs. Lincoln.

In fairness to authors everywhere, titles are often created by marketing teams and not the author. The title I had chosen for my most recent book, and the title that appears on the book's cover, are not similar. Well, they both do contain "Mary Lincoln."

I do not know if Jason chose to use the word "madness," but it does read like a marketing gimmick.

[RJNorton]

(12-13-2022 06:48 AM)Amy L. Wrote:  It's my 2nd-hand understanding that the "foolish and uncalled for rencontre" happened because of Mary Lincoln.

(I haven't studied these Sangamon contributions, only read two of the letters signed Rebecca. Might anyone know of a modern publication that "proves" A. Lincoln wrote the letter that is attributed him?? It's so good.)
(Also - Is it recorded for posterity exactly what from those series James Shields found so offensive? Hand-holding? Puffy cat fur? The Bank War had been going on for three election-cycles... As someone in the public spotlight of politics, did ridicule not go with the territory?)

Amy, here is what Mary wrote regarding the rencontre. This is from a letter to Mary Jane Welles dated December 6, 1865:

Gen Shields, a kind-hearted, impulsive Irishman, was always creating a sensation & mirth, by his drolleries, On one occasion, he amused me exceedingly, so much so, that I committed his follies, to rhyme, and very silly verses they were, only, they were said to abound in sarcasm causing them to be very offensive to the Genl. A gentleman friend, carried them off and persevered in not returning to them [sic], when one day, I saw them, strangely enough, in the daily paper. Genl Shields, called upon the Editor [Simeon B. Francis], and demanded the author. The Editor, requested a day, to reflect upon it–The latter called upon Mr Lincoln, to whom he knew I was engaged and explained to him, that he was certain, that I was the Author–Mr. L. then replied, say to Shields, that ‘I am responsible.’ Mr. L- thought no more of it, when about two weeks afterwards, whilst he was 150 miles away from S[pringfield] attending court, Shields, followed him up and demanded satisfaction. The party, with their seconds, repaid to ‘Bloody Island,’ opposite St Louis armed with swords, but doubtless, to the delight of each one, were reconciled. The occasion was so silly, that my husband, was always so ashamed of it, that months before our marriage, we mutually agreed – never to speak of it, ourselves – and it gradually passed out of the memories of all –


Personally I have not seen absolute proof Lincoln wrote the second letter. All I have seen are sources that say Simeon Francis told Shields that Lincoln wrote it. Lincoln saying "I am responsible" seems more like he wants to take the blame off Mary and onto him. The books say Lincoln wrote the second letter, but I do not know of "absolute" proof of this. Maybe someone on the forum does know.

[David Lockmiller]

(12-14-2022 04:24 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  [W]hilst [Lincoln] was 150 miles away from S[pringfield] attending court, Shields, followed him up and demanded satisfaction.

The occasion was so silly, that my husband, was always so ashamed of it, that months before our marriage, we mutually agreed – never to speak of it, ourselves – and it gradually passed out of the memories of all –

Shields was deadly serious. And, there was not much that ever "passed out of the memory of Abraham Lincoln."

The letter to Alexander Hamilton from Aaron Burr, 22 June 1804, ended as follows: "Thus, Sir, you have invited the course I am about to pursue, and now by your silence impose it upon me. If therefore your determinations are final, of which I am not permitted to doubt, Mr. Van Ness is authorised to communicate my further expectations either to yourself or to such friend as you may be pleased to indicate."

On July 11, 1804, in one of the most famous duels in American history, Vice President Aaron Burr fatally shoots his long-time political antagonist Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, a leading Federalist and the chief architect of America’s political economy, died the following day.

[RJNorton]

No googling please.

Mary Lincoln did a good deal of traveling in the years after the assassination. During one trip she stayed at a large hotel named Congress Hall.

Just where was Congress Hall located?

Congress Hall about the time Mary stayed there

[AussieMick]

Edinburgh?

[RJNorton]

Nope, not Edinburgh.

[AussieMick]

Manchester? .... not even sure if (a) Mary went there, nor (b) if there is a Progress Hall there, although its the type of name that Manchester would have called a city Hotel.

[RJNorton]

Hint #1: The correct answer is in the United States.

[AussieMick]

I'll try Philadelphia and say G'night

[RJNorton]

Nope, not Philadelphia. The correct city is much smaller than Philadelphia.

[Rob Wick]

Buffalo?

Best
Rob

[RJNorton]

Nope, not Buffalo.

Hint #2: She stayed at this hotel in 1867 (same year as the John Surratt trial).

[Anita]

Mary liked to visit health spas and I recall she traveled by steamship up Lake Michigan to a health resort. I can't remember the name but it was in Wisconsin.
I know it's in Jean Baker's book and I could look it up. Is that the same as Googling?