Lincoln's White house and the Ship of Theseus

[Juan Marrero]

Theseus's Paradox posed by Plutarch raises the question whether an object (specifically an ancient vessel) which has over time had all of its components replaced (planks) remains fundamentally the same object.

This came to mind when, several weekends ago, we visited D.C. to see the Lincoln Barouche. It looked spanking new. Clearly, the leather and so much else were of recent vintage. How much of it was Lincoln's final coach?

But, even more so, should we consider the White House to be the house or simply the location where Lincoln lived? The necessary Truman era gutting of the mansion seems to have left only the original walls in place. So, when we visit the White House can we say we stand where Lincoln stood? Is the Green Room the room or just the space where Willie's funeral took place. I do not know enough about the 1940-50's conservation efforts to say whether or not doors, flooring, etc., were carefully preserved in an effort to return them to the internally rebuilt White House. Same can be said about Ford's Theater. The Soldiers Home is said to be much more the house where the Lincolns dwelt.

[LincolnToddFan]

Juan, another BRILLIANT post from you!!

I have also thought the same thing about the White House and other famous places and artifacts. If a sofa has been reupholstered and changed so many times is it the original sofa anymore? How about the famous Lincoln Bed that MTL originally ordered from Philadelphia? Surely it doesn't have the original mattress, etc. The only thing that is probably authentic now is the elaborate Victorian headboard.

Which brings me to the White House itself. I agree with you 100% that the complete(but necessary) gutting of the interior of the Mansion in the Truman era means it is no longer the house he occupied.. but simply the space.

It's sobering and sad to realize, but it's true!

[Eva Elisabeth]

Re.: "The Soldiers Home is said to be much more the house where the Lincolns dwelt" - that's exactly what I felt about Ford's and the Soldiers' Home respectively Lincoln Cottage - the latter felt real, original, the other simply didn't. Also the Lincoln Cottage was way less frequented, not a tourist bee hive, thus the atmosphere quiet and solemn and much more touching. At Peterson House, too (additionally to the "modern recreation of the bedroom" and replicas), I found the atmosphere too hectic and busy due to crowds of tourists being rushed through to realize what had happened there respectively that it was there where it happened...

I would like to know from those who have been there how original the Lincoln Home feels?

[RJNorton]

(05-19-2015 05:14 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I would like to know from those who have been there how original the Lincoln Home feels?

What a great question, Eva, and I wish I could give an answer. I made 25+ trips through the home during our school's annual 8th grade trip to Springfield. My main focus was on discipline and making sure all the students behaved. As I recall tours were limited to 15-20 students at a time, but this still was enough to prevent me from getting a real feel for the home. That memory overwhelms the few times I went through the house without any students. I simply cannot remember how I felt. Believe it or not my clearest memory is of the outhouse in back of the home.

[Gene C]

I've got to agree with Eva, the few times I've been to the Lincoln Home, it was crowded and I felt a bit rushed.
New Salem, a reconstructed village, has a different atmosphere to it. When we have been there the past two years it was less crowded and you go at your own pace. Looking foreword to this years candlelight tour.
http://www.eventcrazy.com/Petersburg-IL/...-New-Salem

(Just another reason to join us this October on the 2015 Springfield Tour. Come enjoy with us gingerbread and cider at the Rutledge Tavern)

[RJNorton]

One more thing I recall. Eva, remember when you toured Florida in 2014 and visited the Gamble Plantation? You may recall during that visit that you were able to walk through the rooms of the house itself. My memory of the Lincoln home is different. You don't get to walk through the various rooms as they are all roped off. You stand in a hallway outside each room as the guide explains it. For some folks this might effect the "feel" they get from the tour.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Yes, sure I remember - actually I found the Gamble Plantation a very touching place. I could feel history, the past times there much more than at Ford's. Despite as you said, one could really enter the rooms (and touch the Benjamin bed...), the site was quiet, the group small, and the atmosphere solemn - the heat, the view on the lovely surrounding park with the shady old trees overgrown with (by?) Spanish moss, the cool(er) air inside, the smell of the old furniture - and there was no rushing.
Gene, I'd so much love to join you, sounds so wonderful...