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Gene C · 02-02-2016, 01:48 PM

A good explanation, well said Dr. Houmes.

maharba · 02-03-2016, 08:29 AM

I found this old note in my files, don't know if it was online or from a clipping.

The Paducah Sun June 04, 1903
Morley...the sole survivor of the pallbearers who carried what is supposed to be Booths remains to the tomb in Green Mount cemetery today made the surprising statement that it was only a mock funeral...He now says: "I have never cared much about talking in regard to the truthfulness of the statement that John Wilkes Booth was buried in Green Mount cemetery for there has always been a certain amount of doubt existing as to whether or not the assassin of President Lincoln
was ever captured killed or even shot. But in order that I might clear up at least one supposition I'll tell you positively that his body is not and never was buried in this city to my knowledge. Certainly the body buried in Green Mount was not that of Booth..."

RJNorton · 02-03-2016, 08:38 AM

Maharba, if you have access to Terry Alford's Fortune's Fool please see pp. 326-329 for information on the positive identification of John Wilkes Booth's remains at Weaver's funeral home in Baltimore in February of 1869.

Also, please see what Ed Steers has to say about Moxley here.

RJNorton · 02-03-2016, 04:17 PM

Once again many thanks to Blaine for this document. This is the handwritten report of John Wilkes Booth's post-mortem examination written by Surgeon General Joseph Barnes. It was sent to Edwin Stanton.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 02-03-2016 05:57 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)

(02-03-2016 08:29 AM)maharba Wrote: I found this old note in my files, don't know if it was online or from a clipping.

The Paducah Sun June 04, 1903
Morley...the sole survivor of the pallbearers who carried what is supposed to be Booths remains to the tomb in Green Mount cemetery today made the surprising statement that it was only a mock funeral...He now says: "I have never cared much about talking in regard to the truthfulness of the statement that John Wilkes Booth was buried in Green Mount cemetery for there has always been a certain amount of doubt existing as to whether or not the assassin of President Lincoln
was ever captured killed or even shot. But in order that I might clear up at least one supposition I'll tell you positively that his body is not and never was buried in this city to my knowledge. Certainly the body buried in Green Mount was not that of Booth..."

Just to add to Roger's clear reply - I think this "scoop" belongs to the same category as does "THE TRUE STORY OF PRESIDENT LINCOLN'S ASSASSINATION AS BROADCAST BY MRS. NELSON TODD FROM STATION W.O.R." on Feb.11, 1928, in which Mrs Todd "revealed" the following:

"Here is what did happen, and I think I am the only person that knows how Booth made his escape. Knowing Booth, it was only natural that my interest was keen enough to attract my attention back to the stage even though I know Lincoln was assassinated. When Booth's spur caught and threw him to the stage he broke his leg in a terrible way, so that the bone actually protruded through his trousers and smeared the stage with blood. Naturally he couldn't move. Laura Keen leaned over and patted his head. Then to my amazement I saw a rope swing out, evidently thrown by some confederates, lasso him and whisk him into the wings. That was the last time I ever saw John Wilkes Booth."

maharba · 02-04-2016, 07:19 AM

No access to that book, and the link to Steers expert analysis doesn't work for me, either. I'm guessing that the 'published experts' somehow are able to assess that the eyewitness and direct acquaintance of JWBooth was 'mistaken', but scores of years later...the experts are able to 'clear up the confusion'? The autopsy report is interesting on the man shot in the back, the man in the barn leaning on crutches shot by the coward "Boston" Corbett. But again, Corbett went on to make some money at churches and lectures swearing that God had directed his aim to the exact bullet location behind the ear as Lincoln's wound. It gives me pause to think that this 'born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks. The autopsy shows Corbett was lying. And I wonder if the bullet was ever found which hit "Booth"? Or what gun or pistol or rifle that Thomas Corbett used to shoot the man, leaning on his crutches in the back? It's been 151 years later now, wonder when we'll find out what weapon it was the the man was shot with? And the odd comment of '2 hours of suffering and horrors of death'. But the man was paralyzed and likely felt little pain at all, from limbs and body which he could not enervate.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 08:14 AM by Gene C.)

(02-04-2016 07:19 AM)maharba Wrote: But again, Corbett went on to make some money at churches and lectures swearing that God had directed his aim to the exact bullet location behind the ear as Lincoln's wound. It gives me pause to think that this 'born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks. The autopsy shows Corbett was lying.

Corbett lied (embellished) his story about where Booth was shot by 6 inches. You have mentioned this before, and there have been responses to you that Corbett, among other things, wasn't quite right in his mind.

For someone who claims to be atheist, you seem to be very bothered by the fact that "this born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks Why should this matter so much to you? It seems to me that there is a deeper issue here that bothers you. If you don't mind my asking, what is the real issue? We may not always show it, but there are a lot of caring people on this forum. We would like to help you with this.

RJNorton · 02-04-2016, 08:37 AM

(02-03-2016 08:29 AM)maharba Wrote: I found this old note in my files, don't know if it was online or from a clipping.

(02-04-2016 07:19 AM)maharba Wrote: No access to that book, and the link to Steers expert analysis doesn't work for me, either.

I am curious as to the fact that the old notes you have in your files usually go against the established history, but when well-researched sources are suggested, you often have no access. Do you have any old notes in your files that say it was Booth's remains on the Montauk?

Susan Higginbotham · 02-04-2016, 09:21 AM

This may have been asked before, and it's probably pointless to ask as you generally avoid answering inconvenient questions, but if the man in the barn wasn't Booth, why would he allow himself to be shot in Booth's stead instead of surrendering and informing the troops that they had the wrong man?

Houmes · 02-04-2016, 10:57 AM

(02-04-2016 07:19 AM)maharba Wrote: No access to that book, and the link to Steers expert analysis doesn't work for me, either. I'm guessing that the 'published experts' somehow are able to assess that the eyewitness and direct acquaintance of JWBooth was 'mistaken', but scores of years later...the experts are able to 'clear up the confusion'? The autopsy report is interesting on the man shot in the back, the man in the barn leaning on crutches shot by the coward "Boston" Corbett. But again, Corbett went on to make some money at churches and lectures swearing that God had directed his aim to the exact bullet location behind the ear as Lincoln's wound. It gives me pause to think that this 'born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks. The autopsy shows Corbett was lying. And I wonder if the bullet was ever found which hit "Booth"? Or what gun or pistol or rifle that Thomas Corbett used to shoot the man, leaning on his crutches in the back? It's been 151 years later now, wonder when we'll find out what weapon it was the the man was shot with? And the odd comment of '2 hours of suffering and horrors of death'. But the man was paralyzed and likely felt little pain at all, from limbs and body which he could not enervate.

To begin with, your reference to the 1903 newspaper account misspelled the name of the eyewitness: "Morley" was actually Basil E. Moxley, a former doorkeeper at one of Ford's theatres. One could argue that either the journalist or the typesetter made a simple spelling mistake, or had an agenda to hide the eyewitness, or wanted to add color to a sensational story--any of which could compromise the validity of the article.

Eyewitness identification is notoriously inaccurate, especially years later. Google: public.psych.iastate.edu/glwells to read the research of Gary Wells, an internationally known professor of psychology at Iowa State University. He's spent 40 years on memory recall (publishing 175 articles and book chapters along the way) and has been consulted by judges, law enforcement (defense and prosecution) in state/federal criminal cases involving eyewitness memory, crime investigation procedures, and evidence collection. Or contact him, and get an earful.

The report of Surgeon General Barnes is perfunctory, leaving out far more than it contains. In regard to your statement that Booth had no suffering after being shot through the neck, that is undoubtedly incorrect. Google: American Journal of Physical Medicine Rehabilitation 1999 March/April 78(2): 102-7. The authors studied 49 living victims of gunshot wounds to the spinal cord, including complete spinal cord injury (which Booth had), and 54% had complications with pain. A bullet shredding the spinal cord does make you paralyzed and insensitive below the wound site, but one in the neck at the level of Booth's wound fractured parts of the 4th and 5th vertebrae. Bits of bone would be scattered along the bullet wound tract involving superficial nerves above the level of paralysis. Not just pain but sharp, searing pain. Plus, the wound involved the phrenic nerve, which goes down from the spinal cord to the diaphragm and coordinates breathing. No diaphragm action equals no ability to breathe, except by trying to force gulps of air in and then out. Back then all victims like Booth died, from suffocation and not enough oxygen, as well as inability to clear their throats from normal secretions. I'd consider that suffering and a horror.

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 11:20 AM by Eva Elisabeth.)

Maharba, I am pleased to help you getting access to Dr. Steers' excellent research. Please notice the important passage begins already at the very top, thus above the yellow highlight.

The last sentence continues on the next page (which is indeed not accessible online) as follows:

"...credible evidence that can counter the claims of dozens of others that the body in the barn was indeed that of JWB."

maharba · 02-04-2016, 01:17 PM

I think, I could safely say "we've ALL seen the old standards" on this and several Lincoln topics. Yes, I am familiar with the Montauk mentioned narratives. And at this time, I wasn't interested in re-expanding the discussion to the pros and cons of that situation, as I examine the Legend of JWBooth. If you or any here have, at times, some new book (which I know I will never buy or see), it is helpful to me to see instead a paragraph a salient line or two. You ask, Susan, why didn't the man in the barn simply come out and give himself up. What happened to the OTHER man who did so? And this fellow knew he would be billed as an accomplice and killed too.
Thanks Eva for the 'image', it doesn't look like it will load for me, but I will retry a few times.

RJNorton · 02-04-2016, 02:59 PM

Here is a larger version:

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 08:06 PM by L Verge.)

(02-04-2016 07:19 AM)maharba Wrote: No access to that book, and the link to Steers expert analysis doesn't work for me, either. I'm guessing that the 'published experts' somehow are able to assess that the eyewitness and direct acquaintance of JWBooth was 'mistaken', but scores of years later...the experts are able to 'clear up the confusion'? The autopsy report is interesting on the man shot in the back, the man in the barn leaning on crutches shot by the coward "Boston" Corbett. But again, Corbett went on to make some money at churches and lectures swearing that God had directed his aim to the exact bullet location behind the ear as Lincoln's wound. It gives me pause to think that this 'born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks. The autopsy shows Corbett was lying. And I wonder if the bullet was ever found which hit "Booth"? Or what gun or pistol or rifle that Thomas Corbett used to shoot the man, leaning on his crutches in the back? It's been 151 years later now, wonder when we'll find out what weapon it was the the man was shot with? And the odd comment of '2 hours of suffering and horrors of death'. But the man was paralyzed and likely felt little pain at all, from limbs and body which he could not enervate.

Well, it seems that we have not convinced you with the facts related to Corbett and the shooting of Booth. I have had at least 4-5 medical doctors explain to me the death ordeals that Booth went through. I hope that Blaine will post his on this forum. But of course, I'm sure you will not approve of professional, medical opinions either...

(02-04-2016 07:50 PM)L Verge Wrote:
(02-04-2016 07:19 AM)maharba Wrote: No access to that book, and the link to Steers expert analysis doesn't work for me, either. I'm guessing that the 'published experts' somehow are able to assess that the eyewitness and direct acquaintance of JWBooth was 'mistaken', but scores of years later...the experts are able to 'clear up the confusion'? The autopsy report is interesting on the man shot in the back, the man in the barn leaning on crutches shot by the coward "Boston" Corbett. But again, Corbett went on to make some money at churches and lectures swearing that God had directed his aim to the exact bullet location behind the ear as Lincoln's wound. It gives me pause to think that this 'born again zealot' Boston Corbett would go to those churches and lie before God and lie ABOUT God to naive folks. The autopsy shows Corbett was lying. And I wonder if the bullet was ever found which hit "Booth"? Or what gun or pistol or rifle that Thomas Corbett used to shoot the man, leaning on his crutches in the back? It's been 151 years later now, wonder when we'll find out what weapon it was the the man was shot with? And the odd comment of '2 hours of suffering and horrors of death'. But the man was paralyzed and likely felt little pain at all, from limbs and body which he could not enervate.

Well, it seems that we have not convinced you with the facts related to Corbett and the shooting of Booth. I have had at least 4-5 medical doctors explain to me the death ordeals that Booth went through. I hope that Blaine will post his on this forum. But of course, I'm sure you will not approve of professional, medical opinions either...

I should have kept reading. Glad that Blaine beat me to the punch. That same information is the essence of everything I have heard and read about Booth's dying hours.

maharba · 02-05-2016, 09:20 AM

Thanks Roger, Eva for allowing me access to books material I would not likely have come across. In this forum/Symposium, I have looked often for informative 'book reviews' (that I hope bring out NEW information to me). Too often, instead, I see folks saying similar to "I bought such and such book, haven't read it". Or the 'book reviews' will be a one-liner dismissal, and then the Thread diverges to some off-topic. To be blunt, the analysis of Basil Moxley eyewitness testimony is not availing or persuasive to me. At this moment, in this thread, it is not my intent to get bogged down with all the contradictions and blunders having to do with the disposition of the supposed 'body of John Wilkes Booth'. My intent, rather, is to continue investigating on the very much LIVING 'Booth' who arrived in Texas. For folks who may wish to believe that 'JWB suffered in his last illness', it is obvious that the cowardly assassin Boston Corbett when he shot the man leaning on crutches into his back, cut the spinal transmission of pain from his fractured limb and allowing his final hour even more welcome relief.