Thomas F. Harney

[Eva Elisabeth]

(11-22-2014 09:54 PM)L Verge Wrote:  BTW: Part of the Russian fleet wintered in San Francisco, and among the sailors on board was a future famous composer by the name of Rimskii-Korsakov.

Thanks, Laurie - fascinating!! As you may know, I love classic music, and found this:

In 1862 Rimsky-Korsakov, born in 1844, graduated from the St. Petersburg naval academy, and soon afterward sailed on the clipper ship Almaz to the US. The vessel anchored in New York City; Baltimore, Maryland; and Washington, D.C. (and due to your info I guess San Francisco). Further subsequent ports of call were Brazil (where he was promoted to the rank of midshipman), Spain, Italy, France, England, and Norway. The ship returned to its home port of Kronstadt (Kronshtadt) in May 1865. Then began his career as composer. He died in 1908.

For Rimsky-Korsakov the voyage confirmed a fascination with the sea, in which aquatic scenes in his operas and symphonic works rooted: the ocean in "Scheherazade" (1888), Sadko (1898), "The Tale of Tsar Saltan" (1900), and the lake in "The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevronia" (1907).

Allow me this aside: The "Scheherazade" music was used for a ballet by the divine and groundbreaking dancer and choreographer Michel Fokine in 1910. BTW, Mikhaíl Mikháylovich Fokín, born in Saint Petersburg in 1880, became a US citizen in 1932, and died in NYC in 1942. (Left: Rimsky-Korsakov, right: Michel Fokine: )
       
Finally, Sunday is the perfect day for some culture and classic music - especially dedicated to my friends from the Sahara of the Bozart (forgive me, no tar and feathers, please - I simply love this metaphor [and the Sahara!!!!], comes right after Twain's "porch time leisure"...and despite Antoine De Saint-Exupéry said: "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well, " - and if one knew then he!), here's "Scheherazade": http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1aFrAV3d1o Enjoy!

(I'll be shown the red card one day for always drifting apart that much...but the next time I see this in a ballet gala, I'll remember that the inspiration in the end came from the 1863 voyage of the Russian fleets to the US.)

[RJNorton]

(11-23-2014 12:19 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  (I'll be shown the red card one day for always drifting apart that much..

No red card! No yellow card! Just the opposite - applause from both the crowd and referees!

[Linda Anderson]

(11-22-2014 10:24 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hope you will not forget him as he was born in my hometown Kiel (and assassinated due to a plot by his wife): http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_III_of_Russia
I think the Russians did basically side with the Union and sought an alliance with her, and demonstrating this was a nice, welcome side effect of the action, but not the reason. I think Russia would never have intervened nor "invested" any efforts in any kind of active support as I believe by the time of the Union victories at Antietam, Vicksburg and Gettysburg, British and French interest in invention was zero. At that time neither of the belligerents was worth taking any risk or costs regarding the explosive situation at home (in Europe).

In October 1862, the Russian vice chancellor, Prince Gorchakow, had assured the US chargé d'affaires, Bayard Taylor, in writing, that Russia would not participate in any form of European intervention in the American conflict. ("Proposals will be made to Russia to join in some plan of interference. She will refuse any invitation of the kind.")

Here's a little more info about the Russian fleet from A World on Fire by Amanda Foreman.

"Two weeks earlier, four Russian warships had sailed into New York Harbor. Their appearance took the country by surprise. The press speculated that Czar Alexander II had sent the fleet as a goodwill gesture to the North. Some people even wondered whether the czar was making a covert offer of military aid - "Thank God for the Russians," wrote Gideon Welles in his diary. But when Seward questioned the Russian minister, Baron Stoeckl, about the fleet's visit, the baron was vague. The real reason the czar had sent his fleet to North America was in order to keep it ready in case Russia resumed hostilities against England and France. The Russian admiral of the fleet had orders to give every impression of military support short of actually lying."

Foreman's source is When the Guns Roared: World Aspects of the American Civil War by Philip Van Doren Stern.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks Roger (I'm glad you say this)!

Linda, thanks for adding another fascinating find. Especially fascinating I find the sentence "The Russian admiral of the fleet had orders to give every impression of military support short of actually lying."- one sometimes wonders...

[HerbS]

Never wonder about the Russians when it comes to history.Eva-Where do you live in Germany?

[Eva Elisabeth]

In the very north, in Kiel, capital of the state of Schleswig-Holstein at the Baltic Sea. Herb, it's a major port of call for cruise ships!
           

There's a Kiel in Wisconsin, too - founded by Charley Lindemann, an immigrant from Kiel, Germany, who began a settlement among the native American Menominee and Potawatomi tribes.

[HerbS]

Eva-I have been to Kiel and Hamburg,Germany[beautiful area].I lived in a Swedish fishing village in 1967+1968.My friends are from-Nueremburg and Bavaria.I also know of the historic plight of Scheswig-Holestein!

[Eva Elisabeth]

Herb - to borrow words Laurie once used, you never cease to amaze me!!! My experience is that people abroad are quite familiar with the German south and middle, but only few have ever heard of Kiel or Schleswig-Holstein (despite sailors). Where in Sweden did you live?

[HerbS]

I lived in Bromella[sp]it is the South-near Malmo+Kristianstad.My job was to confront U.S.Military desererters during the Viet-Nam era.It has taken me 55yrs to admit what I did.I was young and ripe for the picking!

[RJNorton]

Many thanks to Laurie for sending the following:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Several days ago, there was a discussion about the Russian Navy wintering on both coasts of the U.S. in 1863, and I mentioned a death of one of the sailors whose body was never returned to Russia. He is buried in the Annapolis National Cemetery. One of our forum members, Rock Toews, is from that city and well-versed in Civil War history. I contacted him to see if he had further information. Here's his reply and a photo of Demidoff's gravestone. One question: Why would he have had a Greek Orthodox funeral when there is a Russian Orthodox liturgy -- maybe a lack of a Russian Orthodox priest in Annapolis?



Hi Laurie,

I have looked into this before and been unable to find anything on the diplomatic ramifications. I would love to know the source you are remembering. There has to be some mention of the incident in the diplomatic records of Russia or the U.S. You are correct that Nikolai Demidoff (or Demidov) is the only foreign national in ANC. It was early 1864 that the Russian ships Almaz and Variag were in Annapolis harbor, and young Demidov was killed on February 4th--one year earlier to the day than Lincoln's return through Annapolis from the Hampton Roads Conference. It happened in a tavern, the owner of which, William T. League, being the one who shot Demidov. Interestingly, future composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov was a midshipmen aboard the same ship as Demidov--the Almaz. There was an elaborate Greek Orthodox funeral for Demidov in the [then] Naval Academy chapel, and a procession all the way to the cemetery a bit over a mile away. This is described in some detail in the February 13, 1864 of the Crutch. I have somewhere read about government dignitaries coming from Washington for the services, but don't have that at hand just now. Eduard de Stoeckel was the Russian ambassador, and it was also he and Seward who three years later negotiated the sale of Alaska to the U.S. I once wrote an imagined account of the Demidov episode, from the point of view of Rimsky-Korsakov, that speculated on a connection between the Russian sailor's death and the perceived inflated price Seward paid for Alaska.

Best regards,

Rock

[John Fazio]

(12-10-2014 07:56 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Many thanks to Laurie for sending the following:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Several days ago, there was a discussion about the Russian Navy wintering on both coasts of the U.S. in 1863, and I mentioned a death of one of the sailors whose body was never returned to Russia. He is buried in the Annapolis National Cemetery. One of our forum members, Rock Toews, is from that city and well-versed in Civil War history. I contacted him to see if he had further information. Here's his reply and a photo of Demidoff's gravestone. One question: Why would he have had a Greek Orthodox funeral when there is a Russian Orthodox liturgy -- maybe a lack of a Russian Orthodox priest in Annapolis?



Hi Laurie,

I have looked into this before and been unable to find anything on the diplomatic ramifications. I would love to know the source you are remembering. There has to be some mention of the incident in the diplomatic records of Russia or the U.S. You are correct that Nikolai Demidoff (or Demidov) is the only foreign national in ANC. It was early 1864 that the Russian ships Almaz and Variag were in Annapolis harbor, and young Demidov was killed on February 4th--one year earlier to the day than Lincoln's return through Annapolis from the Hampton Roads Conference. It happened in a tavern, the owner of which, William T. League, being the one who shot Demidov. Interestingly, future composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov was a midshipmen aboard the same ship as Demidov--the Almaz. There was an elaborate Greek Orthodox funeral for Demidov in the [then] Naval Academy chapel, and a procession all the way to the cemetery a bit over a mile away. This is described in some detail in the February 13, 1864 of the Crutch. I have somewhere read about government dignitaries coming from Washington for the services, but don't have that at hand just now. Eduard de Stoeckel was the Russian ambassador, and it was also he and Seward who three years later negotiated the sale of Alaska to the U.S. I once wrote an imagined account of the Demidov episode, from the point of view of Rimsky-Korsakov, that speculated on a connection between the Russian sailor's death and the perceived inflated price Seward paid for Alaska.

Best regards,

Rock

Laurie:

Thank you for this. It is all very interesting. As to why there was a Greek Orthodox funeral rather than a Russian Orthodox one, my guess is that there is very little if any difference between the two, both coming from the Orthodox, as opposed to the Latin, tradition. My surmise is that this or that Orthodox Church has more to do with nationality than with theology, i. e. differences in dogma. If I am mistaken about this, I would like to be corrected.

John

[missouriblue]

Hopefully someone is still on this thread. I was going through the roster of the 6th Missouri Infantry Confederate. My goal is to locate everyone in that Regiment final resting place. Yesterday I ran across the name Thomas F Harney. He has some interesting service cards. According to what is written on his overall history card, he is 25 years old in 1862. Born in Blair Co Pa enlisted in the Confederate Army 1 May 1862 Harrisonville Cass Co. Mo. He was engaged at Carthage, Oak Hills, Drywood, Lexington, Corinth where he was wounded. On duty with General Rains staff until Sep/63. After that he is in the Secret Service until Jan/64. The next sentence is a guess, very hard to read, Command of 40 men arrived with Hand grenades until 1 Jul/64 in Charleston SC when last heard from. In Nov/Dec 1863 he is detached Service in Gen Johnson's Army. Feb/64 Mobile Ala. and Charleston SC preparing and planting submarine batteries. Apr/May 64 Mobile Ala placing torpedoes. Jun/64 he is placing torpedoes Richmond Va. Is this the same guy that was on a mission to blow up the white house???

[Steve]

MB, this thread is from a few years before I joined the forum, but from this earlier post in the thread:

https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussi...l#pid39337

This is the same Thomas Harney who tried to blow up the White House.