Thomas F. Harney

[RJNorton]

(10-21-2014 07:49 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  What is known about this last group?

Kees, we once had some discussion of this in this thread.

[Jim Garrett]

If one agrees with "Come Retribution", that the black ops were a result of the failed Dalhgren raid, then who knows how many different ops were run against the head of the Union government. It was probably limited only by available talent and funds at their disposal.

[L Verge]

I think that Dugard (who, I suspect, did the research and writing) was referring to previous threats by Gen. Bradley Johnson and Thomas Nelson Conrad to kidnap. There was at least one other plot suggested to Davis near the beginning of the war. The yellow fever plan was the brainchild of Dr. Luke Blackburn. He's been well-covered by Ed Steers in previous writings, so maybe we can coax Ed in on this discussion. Jane Singer's book on the Confederates' Dirty War also covers Blackburn, I believe.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Kees, here's also some info on the yellow fever plot:
http://www.civilwarprofiles.com/yellow-f...-s-cities/
...and it's excellently covered in Ed Steers' "Blood on the Moon":
http://books.google.de/books?id=cFi3hlh0...=html_text
(Kees, it's a great book at all, IMO a "must-read/have" for anyone interested in the Lincoln assassination!!!)

[SSlater]

I'm sorry I am late with this information, but my computer went down for better than a week. The Wireless receiver was getting a good signal, but wasn't talking to the computer. The repair man could not tell me why.

Back to April 1, 1865: In late March, all the "important" agents in the Secret Line, were called to Richmond for a conference. We were never told what the subject of the meeting was - however, we can justifiably draw our own conclusion, based on what we now know. Thomas Jones tells us he went there, to collect his back-pay for all the time he worked for the Secret Service. (did all these other people come along to support his claim? - I think not) With him were Benjamin Grymes, and Lt. Charles Cawood,. Already in town were, John Surratt, Sarah Slater, Thomas Harney, and maybe more. Jones clings to his "cover story" by telling us he did not get paid, because the Treasury had left town. Cawood then took some leave to visit his new wife, Lucy Johnson - Macon - Cawood, in Manchester, VA (just across the river from Richmond). They had married on 15 March 1865 and their first son was born 15 December 1865, in Richmond.

So, Jones, Grymes, Harney, Surratt, Slater and Cawood were all there, together, on April 1, 1865. IMO The most likely reason was to alert them to the fact that Mr. Lincoln would not coming south, as previously planned. Richmond had other plans for him. Thus, Harney, Stringfellow, Mosby et. al. got busy with their effort.

Cawood's side trip. to Manchester is the reason that he wasn't at his spy camp when Jones signaled for a boat to carry Booth across the Potomac. In Herold's statement, after capture, he said, "we came out of the Nanjemoy at sundown, passed within 30 yards of a gunboat (Actually it was a "Lightship") and landed on Mathias Point", that would PUT HIM IN CAWOOD'S CAMP. - He wasn't there. "Go to plan B -Mrs Quesnenberry.

I am stretching my story, to say, I think that Sarah's return trip from Canada (March 17th to March 30th)was bringing the "This makes the thing all right" reply from Thompson. He is also quoted as saying "I hope she makes the trip safely." The subject of the reply would be so sensitive, that she would have been hanged on the spot, if discovered. I also believe that Surratt took over Sarah's "safety", when he escorted her to Richmond himself and it put him in Richmond for the "Conference" on April 1. Remember, Surratt was asked to escort her personally, by the March 19th letter from New York, but he tried to get out of it. (Hmmm! Did he know the subject of her documents?) He was so concerned, that they stayed hand in hand for the next month. I don't have proof (yet) of this paragraph, maybe someday, I will.

We already known these events are true and proven. the only mystery is WHY.

[SSlater]

I have a problem with Harney actually blowing up the White House. Do you think it would work?
My experience with "torpedoes" is limited, because I was concerned with finding them and negating their effectiveness. (Big difference).
The only pictures that I've seen of 1865 Torpedoes, show a wrinkled metal keg, with pointed ends, that was suspended below the waters surface. Some of these were set off by remote control, and some went BOOM on contact. They were effective against boats with wooden bottoms.
I am aware of the of "The Crater" at Petersburg, that consisted of a mine - 130' long X 60' wide X 30' deep, and pack with 8000 pounds of gunpowder. It took many Pennsylvania Coal Miners several weeks to dig and then pack with power. That was a source of energy, that might not detonate. Anyway, it worked (the explosion worked - not the battle afterward.)
The people under the white house didn't have that much room to work in. I am in serious doubt that Harney had anything near 8000 pounds of Black Powder with him. Where would he get it in D.C.?
If Mosby was expected to provide it, how would he get it into D. C. without being uncovered. (How long would that have taken?)
A few years ago there was a humorous story about the CONFEDERATE ATOM BOMB. Everyone laughed, and the story went away. Maybe I should read it again.
Let's examine an explosion. 1st. It must be combustible material - OK
2nd It must burn rapidly - in that closed space - to create an explosion, otherwise it will burn out in time. Dynamite was not invented until after the war, by Nobel (As in -Nobel Prize).
That means all the powder has to burn immediately and completely.
Why didn't the Rebs arrange a meeting with Lincoln, and leave a satchel under the table, when they left? (Ala the attempt on Hitler at the Wolf's Lair" by Claus Von Stauffenberg.) P.S. There were 6 attempts on Hitler before Von Stauffenberg tried, they all failed.
I think that the bomb to kill Lincoln would have to be set off IN the White House, not under it. Or, they could put an manageable size bomb under the porch at the Soldier's Home. Or, in some doorway that Lincoln was known to use.
ANYONE KNOW ANY MORE ABOUT THIS ATTEMPT?
We all know that the Secret Service, always hid their plans under Code names , and talked about the Deed in coded terms. This is an extreme example of their system. They had another plan!!! In my opinion, Stringfellow had no part in the real plan, or he would not have left Washington at this critical time.
We have no idea of the real plan, it may not have involved Lincoln at all. At least it was not a bomb in the sewer.
That's enough for now. I haven't arrived at an answer that I believe in. HELP.

[John Fazio]

(10-11-2014 11:46 AM)L Verge Wrote:  I truly believe that the direction that modern Lincoln assassination researchers need to head in is trying to find some of these "minor" operatives who appear to have walked into the nether. The bottom rungs on every ladder lead to the top, if one keeps going.

Gen. Tidwell, as most of you know, was high up in covert actions during his career with both Army Intelligence and the CIA. He once told me that, when he learned that the French Resistance during WWII had based their underground activities on what they had been able to learn from the Confederate system, he began to really study that system - because few historians or intelligence operators had! James O. Hall had similar training during WWII in being given the Lincoln case to study from the judicial angle. He then entered the field of investigations at a high level with the Labor Department. Dave Gaddy, the third member of that triumvirate, was with one of our country's highest intelligence-gathering departments.

They developed leads to follow, and I think we owe it to them to keep on searching. IMO, Booth's small gang that takes a beating from historians, had help from both underlings and superiors. Connect enough dots, and I believe that a full picture will develop of a grander plan being developed over at least a year before the assassination that set the groundwork for what became Booth's "one mad act."

Laurie:

I find this posting of yours to be very informative and I thank you for it. I agree entirely with your conclusion. I would add only that the culmination of the help from both "underlings and superiors" and "the grander plan ...developed over at least a year before the assassination" was not "one mad act", it was a "Friday Night Massacre", or at least at attempt at one, when as many as 15 Northern leaders were to be eliminated, if everything had gone according to plan.

John

[HerbS]

I agree with both of you!

[RJNorton]

(11-14-2014 08:23 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  it was a "Friday Night Massacre", or at least at attempt at one, when as many as 15 Northern leaders were to be eliminated, if everything had gone according to plan.

Wow! Without giving away from your book can you expound just a little on this?

[HerbS]

Please tell us more John.-Herb Swingle

[John Fazio]

(11-14-2014 08:48 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 08:23 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  it was a "Friday Night Massacre", or at least at attempt at one, when as many as 15 Northern leaders were to be eliminated, if everything had gone according to plan.

Wow! Without giving away from your book can you expound just a little on this?

Roger:

Happily.

1. The T.I.O.S. letter, an anonymous letter addressed to Booth dated April 10, 1865, contains the following relevant statements:

"George has the plan fixed for the Secretary and for Stanton."
"If the four are assassinated our wrongs are avenged. I am all right about my victim. I could have killed him a week ago, but I am waiting for yours."
"There is one man for every one in the Cabinet." (The L.A., p. 38)

2. In a letter dated May 10, 1865, the writer, a Union agent in Paris, reported that a Confederate agent, "Johnston", said he arrived in Washington at 5:00 p.m. on April 14 and within half an hour knew an "attack" was to be made. "Johnston" states further that if everything had gone according to plan, 15 Yankees would be dead, not one. (The L.A., p. 727)

3. Powell told Eckert that it was his impression that arrangements had been made with others for the same disposition as he was to make of Mr. Seward. (Impeachment Investigation, pp. 673-675) "Others" most certainly did not refer to Atzerodt and Herold, one of whom balked at his assignment and was thought by Booth to be completely unreliable and the other of whom was said by a doctor who testified at the trial to have the mentality of an 11-year old.

4. There is strong evidence for failed attempts to assassinate Johnson, Stanton and Grant and weak evidence for attacks on Chase, Sherman, Welles, Usher, Speed and Sumner.

John

[HerbS]

Thanks John!

[KateH.]

There were witnesses at the trial who testified to the childlike demeanor of David Herold. But making a statement inside a courtroom does not make the statement true. You should be well aware of that, Mr. Fazio.

There was no extended amount of time to prepare a defense case for Herold. Even if there were months on end to plot and plan, the defense still would have been inadequate because of the fact that Herold had been captured with the assassin of President Lincoln. He had aided the escape of John Wilkes Booth. There was little chance for his survival. The idea that Herold had the mentality of an 11 year old and thus was like clay in the hands of the manipulating Booth seemed to be the one desperate reason the defense could conjuror to save him from the gallows. However, look at the rest of Herold's life and suddenly there is little truth behind the aforementioned claim.

Of the four men (Herold, Booth, Powell, and Atzerodt) Herold had the highest level of education. He also worked on and off in the pharmaceutical field and was smart enough to be trusted with the task of guide and, as some researchers are now thinking, point man on assassination night. Remember that Booth's underground ring of Confederates wasn't open to all who supported the CSA. For example, Weichmann was never allowed to join. Furthermore, read the statement Herold gave upon his arrest. Although he had been running from the law for the past twelve days, he still gave a confusing and conflicting testimony meant to throw government officials off the trail leading to his guilt. He blended fact with fiction seamlessly by focusing on some aspects of the manhunt (meeting Booth at Soper's Hill and having been at the tavern with Lloyd) but avoiding others (going to the Surratt Tavern after meeting Booth and not naming Thomas Jones).

Going back to the defense testimonies, read closely and you will find undertones of suspicion within them. Many of the witnesses use the same words (or variations of the same words) to describe Herold. Francis Walsh said that Herold "was light and trifling in a great many things, more like a boy than a man." James Nokes said, "I have always looked upon him as a light and trifling boy...All his conversations were light and trifling." Dr. Charles Davis said, "He is trifling." Dr. Samuel A. H. McKim also called Herold "light." The first three men also remembered how Herold "was easily persuaded and led, more than is usually the case with young men of his age," "more easily influenced by those around him than the generality of young men of his age," and had the tendency to be "very easily persuaded and led." This consistence in word choice, which also appeared in the testimonies of the afflicted girls during the Salem Witch Trials, shows that the witnesses could have been coached on what to say by a ringleader before taking the stand.

To conclude, there is also strong evidence that David Herold did not have the mentality of an 11 year old. Instead, that ploy was used to exhibit the reason why execution would not be a fitting punishment in such a case. While that tactic failed to sway the opinions of jury, it seems to have swayed the opinions of historians ever since the hangman's noose tightened around Mr. Herold's neck.

[HerbS]

Thank you for your perspective KateH.It is well taken by me.

[Dave Taylor]

Very well put, Kate.

To me, the most poignant example of Herold's true intelligence lies in the poem he wrote for Willie Jett. It's clear from his own writing that Herold was a well educated and thoughtful man - the exact opposite of what the defense tried to portray him as in their effort to save his life.

Far too often in the literature today the complex characters of the conspirators are misrepresented as one dimensional taglines. "Atzerodt was nothing but a drunk, Herold had the intelligence of an 11 year-old, Powell was a heartless soldier" All of these representations are not only incorrect but also damaging to the study of our history. If we boil down these multifaceted men and women into single (and erroneous) bullet points, we lesson the impact of Lincoln's death. The whole story then loses the very important context which makes it so interesting to study. The true conspiracy of Booth's plot does not stem from any hypothetical outside influence, but rather from the complex internal and external interactions between his core conspirators and their own personal belief systems and values. No one was a pawn in this. They were all complex individuals who acted the way they did based on their unique personal histories. When we subjugate the identities of the conspirators to cliched taglines, we prevent ourselves from getting a complete and accurate view of story.