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HerbS · 10-20-2014, 08:34 AM

I don't think Lincoln had to pay,but,who knows? Maybe Ford ran the theatre on a"shoe-string-budget",again,who knows how much $$$ he made.My gut feeling is that he died as a wealthy man.That would be a great research project!

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2014 12:15 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)

Herb, if I recall correctly from Tom Bogar's "Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination", J. Ford did die wealthy!

Another question - I wonder if the State Box was rented to other parties when the Lincolns' didn't attend?

HerbS · 10-20-2014, 02:27 PM

He probably did rent out the state box,especially as we now know that he[Ford] died a wealthy man."Money talks and____walks".

Susan Higginbotham · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2014 03:30 PM by Susan Higginbotham.)

(10-20-2014 12:15 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Herb, if I recall correctly from Tom Bogar's "Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination", J. Ford did die wealthy!

Another question - I wonder if the State Box was rented to other parties when the Lincolns' didn't attend?

The Presidential box consisted of two boxes, 7 and 8, which were combined when the President attended by removing a partition. H. Clay Ford testified that on previous occasions that season, Booth had engaged box 7, which was nearer to the audience. (This must have been the box he rented for John Surratt, Lewis Powell, and the two lady boarders from the Surratt boardinghouse.)

My guess is that if large parties wanted the two boxes combined for them, Ford would have obliged.

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2014 03:59 PM by L Verge.)

I think the State Box was like today's Air Force One. There are duplicate planes, and any can be Air Force One the minute the President steps on board. I suspect the State Box at Ford's was only the State Box when the President or some other dignitary used it. The same holds true at the Kennedy Center today. There is one box reserved for the presidential party and guests in the Eisenhower Theatre and the Opera Hall. However, plain old people sit there when it is not reserved for the special people. My daughter and I and several members of the Surratt Society have been seated in that box on several occasions. It helps when one of your best friends has a husband who worked at the Kennedy Center...

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2014 04:43 PM by loetar44.)

Great questions Eva. I’ve really no idea if Lincoln had to pay for his tickets. I suppose not.

I’ve still some questions about Mary Lincoln. A newspaper correspondent Sylvanus Cadwallader described her jealousy pretty well I think: "Mrs. Lincoln seemed insanely jealous of every person, and everything , which drew her husband away from her and monopolized his attention for an hour".

After the “Ord incident” (March 26, 1865) Mary behaved so “humiliated” that she stayed in her private cabin on the River Queen for the next few days and then returned to Washington on April 1, while President Lincoln and Tad stayed in City Point. She traveled with Secretary of State William H. Seward, who arrived in City Point on March 30. On April 6 Mary returned to City Point with Elizabeth Keckly, the family of Sen. Harlan. The Marquis de Chambrun and Sen. Sumner on the steamer "Monohasset".

Three questions:
(1) Does someone know which steamer brought Seward?
(2) Why did Seward came to City Point, while Grant left on March 29? Leisure? To see Lincoln? Or to fetch Mary?
(3) Did Mary return to Washington because she was still angry? Or did she leave for her own safety (Battle of Five Forks, Battle of Petersburg / Richmond)? But in that case, why did Tad stay? And did Seward leave on the steamer which brought him?

HerbS · 10-20-2014, 05:35 PM

Loetar44,You certainly know how to"push the envelope"!

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2014 06:36 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)

Kees, I think Mary left because the "Ord-incident" still "plagued" her (made her feel ashame), plus at the time she left the fall of Richmond was slow in coming. Abraham Lincoln, too, worried he had to go home without seeing this. Mary maybe felt she'd have to "hide" "open end" in her cabin and thus left. A return makes a fresh start easier. BTW, Carl Schurz also traveled a part of the way back with her. She left Tad with his father and to play with Gen. Grant's son.
Just to add - also aboard on April 6: James Speed and William T. Otto (Assistant Secretary of the Interior).

L Verge · 10-20-2014, 07:40 PM

I have never read the book by Dr. Wayne Temple on Lincoln's Travels on the River Queen, but perhaps some of these questions are answered in it?

While googling, I found an interesting painting done after the Hampton Roads Peace Conference, along with some history of the ship. I was amazed to find that it was bought in 1893 by the Mount Vernon and Marshall Hall Corporation that ran excursion trips down the Potomac River with stops at Washington's home and also a wonderful amusement park on the grounds of the old Marshall estate in Maryland. I wonder if my grandparents were ever on board the ship because it made the runs until the early-1900s.

I remember those Potomac River cruises that were still going on when I was a child and teenager. I took several trips on them, including their midnight cruises to the amusement park. In those days (1955-60), they were run by the Wilson Line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peacemakers

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2014 07:22 AM by loetar44.)

(10-20-2014 05:35 PM)HerbS Wrote: Loetar44,You certainly know how to"push the envelope"!

I always want to find the edge ... the end of what is known.

(10-20-2014 06:28 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Mary maybe felt she'd have to "hide" "open end" in her cabin and thus left.

Eva, can you please explain what you are exactly meaning by using the expression "open end" here? Thanks!

Eva Elisabeth · 10-21-2014, 04:45 AM

As I said the fall and "end" of Richmond was slower to come than expected and seemed not to happen within the next hours and days at the time when Mary left, thus "open". Mary did want to witness that, but not wait all the time there in her cabin to which she withdrew after her temper outbreaks. And as I said, making a cut and a fresh start by leaving and returning was probably the most "elegant" way out of this situation.

loetar44 · 10-21-2014, 07:19 AM

(10-21-2014 04:45 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: As I said the fall and "end" of Richmond was slower to come than expected and seemed not to happen within the next hours and days at the time when Mary left, thus "open". Mary did want to witness that, but not wait all the time there in her cabin to which she withdrew after her temper outbreaks. And as I said, making a cut and a fresh start by leaving and returning was probably the most "elegant" way out of this situation.

Now I understand what you ment. Thanks Eva.

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2014 07:41 AM by Eva Elisabeth.)

(10-21-2014 04:06 AM)loetar44 Wrote:
(10-20-2014 05:35 PM)HerbS Wrote: Loetar44,You certainly know how to"push the envelope"!
I always want to find the edge ... the end of what is known.

That's cool, Kees (love challenging questions) - I guess that reveals the precision of the maths teacher...totally off the topic (sorry), but growing up at the Dutch border, I had a Dutch physics and maths teacher, and I'll never forget how he worded the theory of relativity: if you go somewhere faster than the light you arrive before you left...

BTW, it really makes me feel good to experience not being the only one on this side of the ocean who is interested in and gives so much (freetime) for all these topics. It makes no sense to try to share or even explain anyone in my environment why one is interested in all this. The pitiful question that usually comes is: "Do you HAVE to do that for your JOB?"

loetar44 · 10-21-2014, 08:53 AM

(10-21-2014 07:39 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:
(10-21-2014 04:06 AM)loetar44 Wrote:
(10-20-2014 05:35 PM)HerbS Wrote: Loetar44,You certainly know how to"push the envelope"!
I always want to find the edge ... the end of what is known.
That's cool, Kees (love challenging questions) - I guess that reveals the precision of the maths teacher...totally off the topic (sorry), but growing up at the Dutch border, I had a Dutch physics and maths teacher, and I'll never forget how he worded the theory of relativity: if you go somewhere faster than the light you arrive before you left...

BTW, it really makes me feel good to experience not being the only one on this side of the ocean who is interested in and gives so much (freetime) for all these topics. It makes no sense to try to share or even explain anyone in my environment why one is interested in all this. The pitiful question that usually comes is: "Do you HAVE to do that for your JOB?"

Thanks Eva, but like Einstein I use to say: “I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.”

I know what you mean, I’ve a lot of people who don’t understand my passion for Lincoln and American history. But this is food for my brain and I understand that not everyone shares my tastes in food. So I can easily live with it.

loetar44 · 10-21-2014, 10:06 AM

(10-20-2014 04:41 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Three questions:
(1) Does someone know which steamer brought Seward?
(2) Why did Seward came to City Point, while Grant left on March 29? Leisure? To see Lincoln? Or to fetch Mary?
(3) Did Mary return to Washington because she was still angry? Or did she leave for her own safety (Battle of Five Forks, Battle of Petersburg / Richmond)? But in that case, why did Tad stay? And did Seward leave on the steamer which brought him?

I now know that Mary arrived on April 2, 1865 in Washington on the steamer "Monohasset."