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loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 09-19-2014 05:00 PM by loetar44.)

Two American flags, each on a staff, were placed at either side of the box and two others were draped on the balustrades. The blue regimental flag of the U.S. Treasury Guards was suspended at the center pillar on a staff.

I’ve a few questions. I understand that three U.S. flags were used to decorate the box, but why two different Treasury Guards flags? ? Were the three American flags 36 star flags, or 35 star? Which was the flag Booth tripped over and catching his spur in his escape? One of the American flags has bloodstains. Which of the three was that flag? Was this Lincoln’s blood and came it on the flag because it was used to cushion Lincoln's head? Some suggest that Lincoln pushed a flag aside to watch the performance. Which flag? Did Lincoln grasp a flag after being shot. Where are the five flags now? I suppose they are on display somewhere….

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 09-19-2014 05:49 PM by Gene C.)

One of the flags is said to be in the GAR Museum in Springfield, IL

http://www.civilwar.org/civil-war-discov...useum.html

Supposedly, (in the picture below) the flag with the part of it hanging down below the rail on the lower right, is the one that tripped up Booth
http://media1.shmoop.com/media/images/or...heatre.jpg

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 09-19-2014 06:38 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)

Kees, T. S. Good writes in "We Saw Lincoln Shot": "...the Ford's had the front of the presidental box decorated with four American flags, two on poles at either side of the box and two draped over the front edge. American flags were short in supply because of postwar celebrations, so the Fords decorated the middle column of the box with a blue Treasury Guards flag."
Please also see this: http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...g#pid33049

Jim Garrett · 09-19-2014, 07:58 PM

I would have to say that Rich Smyth is probably the most knowledgeable person regarding the flags. I believe he may be a little occupied, but hopefully he will hop on the symposium.

Rsmyth · 09-20-2014, 10:43 AM

Jim, you are very kind. Although I have spent a great deal of time researching the flags lately, the most knowledgeable person, in my opinion is Ed Steers Jr. We have communicated regarding the flags and he was nice enough to review an ms on them that Jim and I are working on, offering suggestions and making changes.
I will attempt to answer some of the questions but please understand that when it comes to the flags all is conjecture based on the current available information.
Five silk flags decorated the box, 3 were from the Treasury Dept. (TD).The TD Regimental flag was hung in the middle between the two boxes. This flag was most likely the one JWB caught his spur in. It is currently on display at Ford’s. The TD Presentation flag was hung to Lincoln’s left and the one some have said he was grasping when he was shot. This flag is not on display but in the collection of the Connecticut Historical Society in Hartford. The third TD flag was the National which was probably draped across the balustrade in front of the Lincoln’s and could also have caught Booth’s spur. This flag was glued into a wooden presentation box using some type of varnish. It was stored at “The Vault” in Union station where a picture of it and some remaining pieces were discovered by Ed Steers. It had deteriorated greatly and was disposed of by the NPS.
An American flag was obtained from the bookseller and stationery firm, Blanchard & Mohun. This flag probably hung vertically on the outside of the box opposite the TD Presentation flag. After the assassination the flag was returned and passed down in the family ending up in the possession of “Virginia Moore Vail” who had moved to California in 1920 and died there in 1935. The whereabouts of the flag are not known today.
Regarding the flag that draped the balustrade in front of Rathbone and Clara Harris, little is known. There have been claimants by others that they have a flag that was decorating the box at the time of the assassination including one in Springfield’s Presidential Library and Museum and the GAR flag that Gene C. mentions but virtually no proof that they were there at that time.
As for the Lincoln Flag “stained with the martyr’s blood.” That “wool” flag is on display at the Pike County Historical Society in Milford, PA about 8 miles from where I sit now. Jim and I feel that this flag was not on display but played a part in the evening’s events, possibly as an extra flag stored in the box or nearby. Assassination experts Edward Steers’ Jr. and Michael W. Kauffman have stated to us that they feel the relic is genuine.
Ok, that’s it in a nutshell.

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 09-20-2014 03:23 PM by loetar44.)

(09-20-2014 10:43 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: Jim, you are very kind. Although I have spent a great deal of time researching the flags lately, the most knowledgeable person, in my opinion is Ed Steers Jr. We have communicated regarding the flags and he was nice enough to review an ms on them that Jim and I are working on, offering suggestions and making changes.
I will attempt to answer some of the questions but please understand that when it comes to the flags all is conjecture based on the current available information.
Five silk flags decorated the box, 3 were from the Treasury Dept. (TD).The TD Regimental flag was hung in the middle between the two boxes. This flag was most likely the one JWB caught his spur in. It is currently on display at Ford’s. The TD Presentation flag was hung to Lincoln’s left and the one some have said he was grasping when he was shot. This flag is not on display but in the collection of the Connecticut Historical Society in Hartford. The third TD flag was the National which was probably draped across the balustrade in front of the Lincoln’s and could also have caught Booth’s spur. This flag was glued into a wooden presentation box using some type of varnish. It was stored at “The Vault” in Union station where a picture of it and some remaining pieces were discovered by Ed Steers. It had deteriorated greatly and was disposed of by the NPS.
An American flag was obtained from the bookseller and stationery firm, Blanchard & Mohun. This flag probably hung vertically on the outside of the box opposite the TD Presentation flag. After the assassination the flag was returned and passed down in the family ending up in the possession of “Virginia Moore Vail” who had moved to California in 1920 and died there in 1935. The whereabouts of the flag are not known today.
Regarding the flag that draped the balustrade in front of Rathbone and Clara Harris, little is known. There have been claimants by others that they have a flag that was decorating the box at the time of the assassination including one in Springfield’s Presidential Library and Museum and the GAR flag that Gene C. mentions but virtually no proof that they were there at that time.
As for the Lincoln Flag “stained with the martyr’s blood.” That “wool” flag is on display at the Pike County Historical Society in Milford, PA about 8 miles from where I sit now. Jim and I feel that this flag was not on display but played a part in the evening’s events, possibly as an extra flag stored in the box or nearby. Assassination experts Edward Steers’ Jr. and Michael W. Kauffman have stated to us that they feel the relic is genuine.
Ok, that’s it in a nutshell.

Thank you for this really GREAT post! But I'm now more confused then I already was.... I've always thought that the treasury guards had two flags, the blue regimental flag and the national standard. You mention a third flag, the presentation flag. Was it an unofficial flag? I suspect this is the presentation flag (with in the canton the text: “Presented to Treasury Guard Regt. by the Ladies of the Treasury Dept. 1864" and 35 stars):

I googled for the national standard, but was not able to find a description or picture. Can you help?

Eva Elisabeth · 09-20-2014, 05:12 PM

(09-20-2014 10:43 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: Five silk flags decorated the box, 3 were from the Treasury Dept. (TD).The TD Regimental flag was hung in the middle between the two boxes. This flag was most likely the one JWB caught his spur in...The TD Presentation flag was hung to Lincoln’s left...The third TD flag was the National which was probably draped across the balustrade in front of the Lincoln’s and could also have caught Booth’s spur.

Great info, Rich! May I ask - why did Henry Clay Ford in his testimony repeatedly speak of one flag (the Treasury Regimental Flag) he got from a gentleman from the Treasury Department (not three)?

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 09-21-2014 09:04 AM by loetar44.)

Maybe you haven't seen this before: "This [is the] '35' star flag taken from the Ford Theater by George Preston Clark on April 14, 1865, the night President Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. Presented to the W.R.C. – G.A.R. Museum by, The grandchildren of George Preston Clark". It's the GAR flag that Gene C. mentioned in post#2

and here sharpened

and here is George Preston Clark (1832-1917) in 1915:

Gene C · 09-21-2014, 09:48 AM

Nice photograph, and I haven't seen it before. Now that I've seen it, I have serious doubts if that flag was ever in Ford's Theater.
It looks like it would be to small, and did they have grommets back then? I'll try to stop by the GAR Museum when we go to Springfield in 3 weeks to learn more.

Jim Garrett · 09-21-2014, 09:53 AM

The GAR flag is a smaller flag. The provenance is somewhat questionable. I also believe it was made of cotton.

Rsmyth · 09-21-2014, 11:26 AM

Loetar44 – you are correct. The other TD flag was the Presentation flag.
Eva – Harry Ford stated that when he received the Regimental flag, there were already two flags in the box. Later that afternoon James L. Maddox acquired one American flag from bookseller and stationery firm, Blanchard & Mohun. That accounts for 4 flags; TD Regimental, Blanchard & Mohun and 2 other flags which Harry Ford found in the box. Since we are pretty sure (remember – nothing is certain) that the TD National and the TD Presentation flag were also display, these were in all likelihood the 2 flags Harry found.
Loetar44 – As Jim stated “too small and made of cotton.” All the others displayed were silk. Also, the only provenance we have is a 20-page letter to his family recounting the history of his "Lincoln flag.” He also stated that he helped decorate both Ford’s and Grover’s Theaters. Clark wrote that on April 14th 1865 he was at Grover’s when he heard the President had been shot. He ran over to Ford’s and entered the box. Taking a pocket knife out of his jacket he cut the flag down, folded it up and put it under his coat. He then went back to Grover’s.

Jim Garrett · 09-21-2014, 03:25 PM

(09-21-2014 09:48 AM)Gene C Wrote: Nice photograph, and I haven't seen it before. Now that I've seen it, I have serious doubts if that flag was ever in Ford's Theater.
It looks like it would be to small, and did they have grommets back then? I'll try to stop by the GAR Museum when we go to Springfield in 3 weeks to learn more.

I asked Waite Rawls, executice director of the Museum of the Confederacy about grommets. He said that he is not familiar with any flags with grommets dating to the Civil War. He said the closest he has seen are holes that were rimmed in thread, like a buttonhole.

I asked Waite this question because the Museum of the Confederacy has approximately 500 Civil War era flags (mostly Confederate) in their collection. Waite has spent no small amount of time with the collection, and has been a champion of restoration and preservation of the collection.

I would have to say, grommets is a pretty good indicator that a certain flag is probably not going to have any connection to the Lincoln Assassination.

Rsmyth · 09-21-2014, 04:32 PM

Boy does that pic of Mr. Clark look like Sam Armold and his dog!

Gene C · 09-21-2014, 06:38 PM

Thanks Jim for the info on the grommets

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 09-23-2014 07:45 AM by Eva Elisabeth.)

(09-21-2014 11:26 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: Eva – Harry Ford stated that when he received the Regimental flag, there were already two flags in the box. Later that afternoon James L. Maddox acquired one American flag from bookseller and stationery firm, Blanchard & Mohun. That accounts for 4 flags; TD Regimental, Blanchard & Mohun and 2 other flags which Harry Ford found in the box. Since we are pretty sure (remember – nothing is certain) that the TD National and the TD Presentation flag were also display, these were in all likelihood the 2 flags Harry found.

Thanks, Rich, this makes sense to me as I was wondering if these were the ones he found. But I don't understand why he didn't mention the two other flags added later since he described and reasoned the box decoration at all so detailed.