Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

Linda Anderson · 07-05-2012, 06:05 PM

What is "peculiar" about this statue of William Seward in Madison Square?

HerbS · 07-05-2012, 06:18 PM

His long legs?

Linda Anderson · 07-05-2012, 08:04 PM

(07-05-2012 06:18 PM)HerbS Wrote: His long legs?

That's correct, Herb. According to an article from the New York Herald dated 3/8/1896, "Seward's Head, Lincoln's Body: Did You Ever Notice a Peculiarity in the Statue in Madison Square?", the noted sculptor Randolf Rogers, who died in 1892, had twenty years earlier "Beheaded a Statue of the President and put on the Secretary's Head."

Wilson Macdonald, a close friend of Rogers said, "It is not a sculpture of Seward, excepting the head. Seward's head and Lincoln's heart is not a bad combination. The artistic effect is not bad, either, but the fact remains that the body is one of Lincoln, and it is a good one, too. No artist who ever saw Lincoln and Seward would mistake which one the long arms and legs of the statue belong. Seward was a short legged, long bodied man. I have the word of Randolph Rogers, who made the statue, that he combined Seward's head with Lincoln's body...I never learned...how Rogers happened to have a model of Lincoln in stock."

Two weeks later Rogers' son wrote a letter to the New York Herald saying that the story was "one of the many jokes of my father. Mr. Wilson Macdonald is very much mistaken as to the decapitation of Mr. Lincoln's statue and the grafting of Mr. Seward's head. But perhaps my father did tell Mr. Macdonald of the decapitation, and if he did Mr. Macdonald can rest assured he was the subject of a joke."

Mr. Macdonald in turn replied, "I have just been shown a letter from Randolph Rogers' son in which he says his father must have given me the story as a joke. Possibly, but it was so funny that I could not help remembering it. Rogers was a capital story teller, full of humor, besides being a great artist, and I am sure I never knew a man for whom I had more friendship than Randolph Rogers."

BettyO · 07-05-2012, 08:52 PM

(07-05-2012 08:04 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:
(07-05-2012 06:18 PM)HerbS Wrote: His long legs?

That's correct, Herb. According to an article from the New York Herald dated 3/8/1896, "Seward's Head, Lincoln's Body: Did You Ever Notice a Peculiarity in the Statue in Madison Square?", the noted sculptor Randolf Rogers, who died in 1892, had twenty years earlier "Beheaded a Statue of the President and put on the Secretary's Head."

Wilson Macdonald, a close friend of Rogers said, "It is not a sculpture of Seward, excepting the head. Seward's head and Lincoln's heart is not a bad combination. The artistic effect is not bad, either, but the fact remains that the body is one of Lincoln, and it is a good one, too. No artist who ever saw Lincoln and Seward would mistake which one the long arms and legs of the statue belong. Seward was a short legged, long bodied man. I have the word of Randolph Rogers, who made the statue, that he combined Seward's head with Lincoln's body...I never learned...how Rogers happened to have a model of Lincoln in stock."

Two weeks later Rogers' son wrote a letter to the New York Herald saying that the story was "one of the many jokes of my father. Mr. Wilson Macdonald is very much mistaken as to the decapitation of Mr. Lincoln's statue and the grafting of Mr. Seward's head. But perhaps my father did tell Mr. Macdonald of the decapitation, and if he did Mr. Macdonald can rest assured he was the subject of a joke."

Mr. Macdonald in turn replied, "I have just been shown a letter from Randolph Rogers' son in which he says his father must have given me the story as a joke. Possibly, but it was so funny that I could not help remembering it. Rogers was a capital story teller, full of humor, besides being a great artist, and I am sure I never knew a man for whom I had more friendship than Randolph Rogers."

That is a hoot, Linda! Thanks a bunch for a wonderful story -- you guessed the right answer, Herb!

LincolnMan · 08-12-2012, 06:21 AM

That has got to be one of the most odd historical statues. While I see the humor in it-there is also a part of me that doesn't care for it. I mean, it isn't really Seward and it also isn't really Lincoln. I wonder what the plaque says about it.

Linda Anderson · 08-18-2012, 09:31 AM

Bill, according to an April 10, 1906 letter to the Editor of the New York Times written by Joseph E. Pumpelly, a fund was raised "about 1870" to erect the Seward statue by "patriotic citizens." The committee asked the sculptor to lower his price which the sculptor declined to do and instead offered to attach the head of Seward to the body of Lincoln, "which had been left on his hands by a defaulting Western city."

A "distinguished sculptor" (probably Wilson MacDonald) told Mr. Pumpelly that Seward's biographer, who is not named but is probably Frederic Bancroft, thought the statue was a "monstrosity" which should be removed.

http://rogerjnorton.com/PatchworkStatue.pdf

Here is a different view of the statue.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

LincolnMan · 08-18-2012, 09:50 AM

Linda: a truly fascinating story and an oddity in the "Lincoln world." Today, it is simply a curiosity-but at the time of its making it probably was deemed a "monstrosity" by many. I bet the majority of people who pass by it now don't: 1) know who Seward was; and 2) don't realize the uniqueness of the statue. And they probably don't care either!

Linda Anderson · 08-18-2012, 11:49 AM

The statue was unveiled in 1876, four years after Seward's death. I think if Seward had seen the statue, he would have been amused to see how much taller he was than in real life.

LincolnMan · 08-18-2012, 11:59 AM

I think Lincoln would have appreciated it too. I'm can almost hear him quipping: "That's the long and short of it!"

LincolnMan · 12-20-2012, 11:20 AM

I recently purchased a DVD set of the old TV show Branded! with Chuck Connors. Anyone remember the show? Anyway, there is an episode called "Seward's Folly"-which was about Mr. Seward's work regarding Alaska. The actor portraying him didn't resemble him at all. He also seemed too jovial for how I think Seward was (wasn't Seward a very serious sort of fellow?). There is a comment during the episode about the assassination, by the way. A woman in the story remarks to Chuck Connor's character that Mr. Seward was nearly killed during the night of the Lincoln assassiantion. McCord (Chuck Connors) says something to the effect that he was aware that Seward was cut up pretty badly. I was waiting for a comment about Lewis Powell, but they didn't go there. Anyway, I always find it interesting to find something about the assassination in places not expected. Forgive me for posting this on this thread-but at least it's about Seward!

Linda Anderson · 12-20-2012, 12:06 PM

I think Seward was serious but he had also a tremendous ability to enjoy life. Lincoln would hang out at Seward's house on Lafayette Square not only to talk about politics but also because he enjoyed Seward's company.

This quote is from an overview of Seward: Lincoln's Indispensible Man.

"Seward was not only important, he was fascinating. His hair was unruly and his clothes untidy, yet he was suave and sophisticated, quoting the classics with ease. He and his wife, Frances Miller Seward, were often separated by his work and her illness, and yet they were close, and he relied upon her strong moral sense. Seward gathered around his table an eclectic assortment of diplomats, soldiers, politicians, actors and others, men who enjoyed a cigar, a drink and a good story. Even his enemies admitted that Seward was good company."

http://walterstahr.com/books/seward-linc.../synopsis/

LincolnMan · 12-20-2012, 12:22 PM

Nice info Linda. It diffuses my perception of him as being sort of a humorless "stuffed shirt."

Linda Anderson · 12-20-2012, 12:41 PM

(12-20-2012 12:22 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: Nice info Linda. It diffuses my perception of him as being sort of a humorless "stuffed shirt."

Thanks, Bill. Seward was the opposite of a "stuffed shirt." For whatever reason, "Lincoln" didn't show Seward's joie de vivre.