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Linda Anderson · 11-19-2013, 02:50 PM

(11-19-2013 02:48 PM)brtmchl Wrote: That settles that. Thank you Linda.

You're welcome!

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 03:09 PM by Gene C.)

Thanks for clarifying.

I'll add this last little bit...minimalize the importance or eliminate God from government and you end up a society with no moral compass. The state determines what is right or wrong. Even our own government has done a poor job of this at times. History ifs full of horror stories when this happens. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion

Interesting that they would they ask President Obama to read a different version of the speech than the other presidents?

Rob Wick · 11-19-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion

In actuality, it CAN mean just that.

I say this in the most respectful manner, but what you're describing is a theocracy, which we are most definitely not.

I have been self-identified as an atheist for about 10 years now and my moral compass is just fine. Smile

Best
Rob

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 04:55 PM by Gene C.)

Ooops! It was not my intention to offend anyone, especially you Rob. I respect your opinion even if we don't always agree. I know you feel the same. I've been trying to find the right words to say for the past 30 minutes without making things worse. They're here, somewhere. So I'll just be quite; for now

We'll always have Springfield Big Grin

Rob Wick · 11-19-2013, 05:36 PM

Gene,

I certainly did not feel offended in any way, shape or form. You have every right (and I'll defend that right) to say whatever it is you believe. A spirited and vigorous discussion is the hallmark of civilization.

I would love to hear (er...read) what you're thinking.

One question? Just who is Rick and who is Ilsa in this scenario? Smile

Best
Rob

brtmchl · (This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 06:51 PM by brtmchl.)

There is another reference to religion in the Gettysburg Address besides the " under God " phrase that I just learned about because of this thread and wanted to pass along. The lines, "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." Contained a reference that Christians in this era may have recognized.

"This Bible is for the Government of the People, by the People, and for the People."
---- General Prologue to the Bible translation of 1384 by John Wycliffe.

ELCore · 11-19-2013, 07:05 PM

(11-19-2013 12:11 PM)brtmchl Wrote: I have heard that there were 5 drafts of the Address, The first 2 did not include these words, but the final version signed by Lincoln included these words.
I also saw a 2 year old on youtube that recited the speech from memory. It was very sweet.

We have 5 extant copies of the Gettysburg Address in Lincoln's own handwriting: two were written (in part, at least) before the speech was given and are, thus, considered to be drafts; the other three were all written afterwards. There is also a syndicated newspaper (Associated Press) version. Every version except the two drafts contain the phrase "under God". These six versions are all presented, compared, and contrasted in Address Delivered at the Dedication of the Cemetery at Gettysburg.

Gene C · 11-19-2013, 07:59 PM

(11-19-2013 05:36 PM)Rob Wick Wrote: Gene,

One question? Just who is Rick and who is Ilsa in this scenario?

Best
Rob

Actually, I was thinking of this scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQuyKlt1Ew

Rob Wick · (This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 08:14 PM by Rob Wick.)

During World War II, my college adviser and mentor served in the Third Army as a tank commander. His brother died, and he was being discharged so he could go home and take care of his mother. On his way out, he stopped in Casablanca. He said one of his friends wanted him to go a movie with him. What was playing? Casablanca.

Best
Rob

brtmchl · 11-19-2013, 08:40 PM

(11-19-2013 07:05 PM)ELCore Wrote:
(11-19-2013 12:11 PM)brtmchl Wrote: I have heard that there were 5 drafts of the Address, The first 2 did not include these words, but the final version signed by Lincoln included these words.
I also saw a 2 year old on youtube that recited the speech from memory. It was very sweet.

We have 5 extant copies of the Gettysburg Address in Lincoln's own handwriting: two were written (in part, at least) before the speech was given and are, thus, considered to be drafts; the other three were all written afterwards. There is also a syndicated newspaper (Associated Press) version. Every version except the two drafts contain the phrase "under God". These six versions are all presented, compared, and contrasted in Address Delivered at the Dedication of the Cemetery at Gettysburg.

Thank you for the info.