Why was Mary Surratt not photographed after her arrest?

[Gene C]

(11-14-2013 01:34 PM)boswellbaxter Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:10 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Many years ago, someone else wrote an article on "They All Loved Lucy." I want to say that it was a contributor to American Heritage?

I can actually be of help here:

http://www.americanheritage.com/content/...loved-lucy

thanks for the link...

I think Hay summed it up well for most of us husbands in the last two sentences of that article.

[L Verge]

Thanks for locating the link to the American Heritage article and reminding me that Richmond Morcom was the author. Several years ago, while trying to settle an argument over Lucy's picture, I found that Mr. Morcom was the expert on Lucy Hale and her family and had worked with the museum in the Hales' New Hampshire home.

[BettyO]

(11-14-2013 10:23 AM)brtmchl Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 06:18 AM)BettyO Wrote:  You are so right, Roger!

Roscoe's Web remains one of my favorites - flaws and all. Still, it IS a fast-moving good read. Yes, there is a lot of speculation contained therein, but I would recommend it to anyone who is interested in the assassination. It's considered one of the "classics" alongside Bishop's novel The Day Lincoln was Shot and Oldroyd - irregardless what one thinks of the author's theories....

Betty, I just recently purchased a copy of Oldroyd’s The Assassination of Abraham Lincoln. The fun part about it, was that it was completely by accident. Even better was the name of the store I found it in. I was in Chicago and came across a storefront called Powell’s Bookstores. Powell's, has been in business for the over 40 years. There are three stores, in Hyde Park, University Village and Lakeview, each carrying quality used, rare, and discounted books. They also partner with Abebooks.com so if you cannot find something in the store they check for worldwide sellers. For anyone wanting to sell used or even new books I believe you can sell through Abebooks kind of like eBay I guess.

Quote:...I just recently purchased a copy of Oldroyd’s The Assassination of Abraham Lincoln. The fun part about it, was that it was completely by accident. Even better was the name of the store I found it in. I was in Chicago and came across a storefront called Powell’s Bookstores.

Mike, I'm very familiar with Powell's Bookstore (good name!) I've bought several books through them.

Oldroyd (looks like you've got the very same edition that I have!) is a good read and is a classic in itself. I love it because it details one of the very first Booth Escape Route Tours.... Glad you got it!

[Sally]

(11-14-2013 08:59 AM)Gene C Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 10:04 PM)Sally Wrote:  I recently had the opportunity to read through the papers of Lucy and her sister, Lizzie, at the New Hampshire Historical Society in Concord. Although there was nothing in them about her relationship with Booth, they helped give a personality to a woman who is known primarily as the Dumpy Dimwit Duped by JWB and Deserving of Disdain.

Sounds like an interesting article for the Courier. I'd like to hear more about her.

Ah! If only I had the writing skills and credentials to write an article for the Courier!

Reading the Hale family letters was great fun. I’m not a trained historian, so it was very cool for me to hold in my hands letters written, not only by the Hales, but also by their correspondents like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. and John Hay. I only wish I’d had a couple more days to pour over them more thoroughly. Lucy’s handwriting was atrocious, (especially when she did that cross-writing thing that Victorians employed to save paper), so it was very slow going at first. It took me about 4 hours to kind of “break the code” of her cursive. Thankfully, Lizzie’s writing was clearer. Probably the most affecting letter I found was one she wrote to Lucy around 1889. At that time, Lucy’s husband, William Chandler, had gone to New York on business. While in NYC, he visited Lizzie (who lived there) and took her to the theater, along with one of his sons from his first marriage. In the letter, Lizzie tells Lucy what a nice time they all had, and she mentions that while they were in the theater a “very handsome boy” approached and introduced himself as Jack Lincoln, Robert’s son. Jack knew Wm. Chandler from the days when Chandler and Robert were both serving in Chester Arthur’s cabinet. Lizzie mentions that Jack was quite poised and polite, and how pleased he was when Chandler’s son (who was a naval officer) offered to take him aboard a ship and show him around. But the part of the letter I found poignant was when Lizzie described how much Jack was looking forward to his family’s impending voyage to England where his father was about to take on the role of minister to the Court of St. James. As many on this forum know, Jack died of blood poisoning less than a year after they arrived in Europe. He was only 16.

I also found this letter interesting because it indicated that relations between the Lincolns and the Chandlers must have been fairly friendly, despite the rather . . . uh . . . awkward circumstances.

Also, in response to Laurie's comment "I would also dispute that Lucy is known primarily as the "Dumpy Dimwit Duped by JWB and Deserving of Disdain" . . . Most books that I have read on the assassination credit Lucy Lambert Hale with being a very intelligent, witty, well-read conversationalist with a personality that attracted more than just Booth."

I agree that's true of many well-researched, non-fiction books. But I was referring more to the fictionalized accounts, beginning with the dreadful "Katy of Catoctin", through "Gore Vidal's Lincoln", and up to recent novels like "The Impeachment of Abraham Lincoln" and even the "The Lincoln Deception" which has recently been discussed on this forum. They all portray Lucy in a bad light. In fact, my first exposure to Lucy Hale was 30+ years ago when I read Vidal's book. It colored my idea of her for years, until I started looking up the facts.

Anyway, thanks to all for the recommendation of “The Web of Conspiracy”. I will find a copy and read it.

[Thomas Kearney]

(09-03-2013 09:36 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:03 AM)brtmchl Wrote:  I would imagine that once they decided that Mary was involved and put her on trial, as a prime suspect, the demand for a photograph would have been high.

Right on, Mike. Even fake pictures of her were sold to a gullible public.

Bogus Mary Surratt

SOURCE: p. 66 of Ed Steers' The Escape and Capture of John Wilkes Booth

Roger,

Rumor has it that this was a photo of Betty Rollins, wife of Port Conway ferrymen William Rollins, who gave William Jett away.

[L Verge]

That rumor would be wrong unless this photo was made many years later. There is at least one published picture of Mrs. Rollins that has appeared in several books over the years. I think we have a copy in the Surratt files that I will post if I have time to locate it.

This lady is very nice looking, but Mrs. Rollins was even better looking. Some of us have even wondered about her choice for a husband because she is so lovely compared to the photo of her husband (my apologies for judging the dead).

[RJNorton]

(12-18-2014 10:25 AM)L Verge Wrote:  That rumor would be wrong unless this photo was made many years later. There is at least one published picture of Mrs. Rollins that has appeared in several books over the years. I think we have a copy in the Surratt files that I will post if I have time to locate it.

This lady is very nice looking, but Mrs. Rollins was even better looking. Some of us have even wondered about her choice for a husband because she is so lovely compared to the photo of her husband (my apologies for judging the dead).

Thank you to Laurie who just sent this image of Mrs. Rollins.

[SSlater]

I don't have any confirmed documentation, but I can deduce from the little that I know, that the conspirators were photographed on the Gunboats and Mary wasn't there. . There wasn't another Official photo session. There wasn't any "snapshot" capability available. The sessions were complicated and time consuming. Thus we have a picture of Payne plastered against the bulkhead- and looking very bored.
Weren't the prisoners marched into the Courtroom in their Hoods?
I recall a description of Mary suffering from the heat of her veil - in the Courtroom.
The pictures that I recall of Mudd was a very formal shot , wearing Sporty clothes. Mary's pic looks like it was takes during her Mourning, for the death of her husband.

[L Verge]

John, I think you are correct on every score - especially the first one about Mary Surratt and Dr. Mudd being held elsewhere and thus not photographed. I think they might also have been considered a tad above the others in social standing and deserving of more respect?? Not sure if the hoods were left on until they entered the courtroom.

The CDV of Mary that was used for the centerpiece of The Ring of Conspirators engraving is in the New York Public Library and was likely taken shortly after her move to the boardinghouse in D.C., which would put it within a few months of the assassination. We surmise that based on the amount of debt she was in after her husband's death and the lack of income as long as she was struggling in Surrattsville. The boardinghouse brought her some income almost immediately, and it would have been tempting to have her picture taken - especially with Anna probably goading her into it.

This is rather rude of us, but reporters referred to Mrs. Surratt as being "fair, fat, and forty;" so some of us often refer to that photo as being the "fair, fat, and forty" photo.