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LincolnMan · 07-10-2013, 06:01 AM

(07-10-2013 03:53 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(07-09-2013 10:08 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: I like it, Lane. I like it a lot. The one word that kept jumping out at me was work.

"Work, work, work, is the main thing."

-----The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Letter To John M. Brockman" (September 25, 1860), p. 121.

Isn't is ironic that the boy (Lincoln) who was thought to be lazy by some became the man with such a strong work ethic?

J. Beckert · 07-10-2013, 07:22 AM

I thought about that too, Bill, I don't know if anyone but his father thought that. It seems his father thought Lincoln's love of reading was because he was lazy. I think Lincoln thought that using his mind was a far better way to get ahead than farming. What's ironic is that as President, he said he was much happier as a boy when he dug potatoes for 25 cents a day.

L Verge · 07-10-2013, 08:36 AM

An excellent article, Lane; thank you for sharing it and your thoughts with us. The American society has always been based on a strong work ethic, and hopefully we will see a turn-around that brings future generations back to that line of thinking. I wonder what Mr. Lincoln would think of the word "entitlement" today?

Rob Wick · 07-10-2013, 11:04 AM

When someone can show me a speech made by Lincoln in which he discusses welfare or unemployment benefits or healthcare, then I'll concede the point. Until then it's mainly wishful thinking.

Best
Rob

J. Beckert · 07-10-2013, 12:04 PM

(07-05-2013 04:57 PM)Matt Macoubrie Wrote: In addition how do you think Lincoln would have handled national security, welfare, and unemployment! Feel free to write your comments! This is not a bash-American politics post, it's a conversation about the contrast or comparison between 1860s and 2000s politics!

Have fun!!

I think you're missing the point, Rob. Matt's question was just a hypothetical one. I think he's looking for contrasts and comparisons between our present time and Lincoln's and what Lincoln would think about mailing out checks to people who just don't want to get up and go to work.

L Verge · 07-10-2013, 12:32 PM

That is exactly how I interpreted Matt's first posting also and made comment to that effect in my first comment on this thread. Liz further made reference to Lincoln keeping an OPEN mind. What concerns me today is how CLOSED-minded many have become and how they prefer to be on public dole or to support those who are just lazy.

To me, whether one is liberal, conservative, or apolitical, such an attitude is destructive to individual growth as well as to the improvement of a society as a whole. I think Mr. Lincoln would agree - and if I get to meet him in the after-life, it's one of the questions that I will ask him!!!

Rob Wick · 07-10-2013, 12:50 PM

I actually understand Matt's point very well. My point is that such hypotheticals tell us very little if anything about Lincoln and more about the person making the comment, whether that person be liberal or conservative. Anyone is obviously free to have such a discussion, but the point I can't see is what benefit it has.

Best
Rob

Matt Macoubrie · 07-10-2013, 01:16 PM

(07-09-2013 08:54 PM)ELCore Wrote:
(07-06-2013 11:21 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: I think Lincoln's thoughts regarding welfare, as were probably the thoughts of most folks at the time, could be summed up in the words he wrote to his half-brother, John Johnston. If you're able bodied - go find some means of gainful employment. Don't sit back and expect the Government, or anyone else, to provide for you.

Lincoln couldn't get nominated by any party nowadays, if only because of his looks.

I wrote this article for Lincoln's birthday this year: Would Abraham Lincoln Be a Democrat Today?

By the way, I myself belong to no political party.

What a great article!!! And Rob it is okay to disagree, but I don't think my question determines what political party I am a part of! Because of hypotheses (which was my question) we couldn have found answers to historical data. The benefit of this exercise is to analyze and hypothesize, which are the roots of who we as historians are!!!!

L Verge · 07-10-2013, 01:28 PM

Well said, Matt. And, considering that I doubt most of our participants on this forum realize that you are just barely 21 (if that?), it speaks well for the future of history that we do have a new generation coming along that understands the basic principles of being a historian/teacher.

Rob Wick · 07-10-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:I don't think my question determines what political party I am a part of

Your question doesn't, but the answer would.

Best
Rob

J. Beckert · 07-10-2013, 01:57 PM

To get this thread back on a positive, more productive spin, what do you think about what's been submitted so far, Matt?

RJNorton · 07-10-2013, 02:30 PM

We had a 19-year-old join the forum last week, so I think we have at least two members 20 or younger.

Matt Macoubrie · (This post was last modified: 07-10-2013 03:02 PM by Matt Macoubrie.)

To answer our question, I think that the neatest thing I read was about government benefits! I would agree that I don't think many would have liked government benefits, rather they wanted to work for their money! In addition I think that during Lincoln's tenure compared to the past two presidents.... Lincoln was dealing with a war inside of the country where Bush and Obama did not have to deal with that. Lincoln united a war-torn country (that was his own),and created prosperity out of calamity while Bush and Obama united foreign countries! So does anyone think that if Lincoln could have used more foreign aide he would have? Today we get involved in foreign affairs (which Jefferson said not to) so have the tables turned over the past 150 years? Maybe the United States was not as much of a superpower than some historians think! Personally, I think exports helped us along with science, I mean Lincoln was not only a great president, but inventor too! Have we lost or gained any edge in the world since the 1860s? You decide!!!

(07-10-2013 01:28 PM)L Verge Wrote: Well said, Matt. And, considering that I doubt most of our participants on this forum realize that you are just barely 21 (if that?), it speaks well for the future of history that we do have a new generation coming along that understands the basic principles of being a historian/teacher.

Ah in actuality Laurie I am 22 and I am so depressed about when my birthday is... April 8 .... It's like I was born before all the cool stuff happened, although in my house April is HUGE ..... 2 bday and then the important civil war era dates as well!!!! Gosh I miss April, it my favorite month

L Verge · 07-10-2013, 03:26 PM

Oh, Matt; once you hit 21, it's a downhill slide all the way! Just teasing, of course. BTW: April 8, 1864, the U.S. Senate abolished slavery and approved the 13th Amendment...

My Name Is Kate · (This post was last modified: 07-11-2013 01:03 AM by My Name Is Kate.)

There was a thread not too long ago, in which it was the general consensus that Lincoln belonged exclusively to his own time, and while there may be some merit in thinking about what he would do today, the result is still only speculation. I can't see him supporting entitlements or a welfare society, but one never knows. Maybe if he lived today, he would want nothing at all to do with politics because it is a too-hopeless mess.