Lincoln & Herndon

[Angela]

(07-09-2014 10:06 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 05:14 AM)Angela Wrote:  [quote='LincolnToddFan' pid='35509' dateline='1404834128']

He triumphed over all of the above, yet we are to believe that he was successfully duped, manipulated and then destroyed by a psychologically fragile Southern belle a decade younger than himself??

Hi Angela,

You didn't write anything at all that gave me that impression. I made the remark because that's the implication I get after 30+ years of reading MTL detractors. Sorry that I got so worked up!

She wanted to be married to a future president, but I am not sure that I agree that AL necessarily needed a wife. There was and is precedent for a successful man remaining a bachelor. But AL's closest friend Joshua Speed had gotten married, and I think Lincoln wanted the same thing because he was essentially lonely. He took a wife because he wanted his own home and family at that point.

I have never bought into the idea that his choice of Mary was purely strategic. It would go against everything we know about his character, which was that he was an honest and honorable man. To marry a woman simply because you see her as a stepping stone implies a cold, calculating, dishonest nature. It also means he perjured himself at the altar.

And then, there is the inscription he had engraved on her wedding band. For me at least, it ultimately always goes back to that.

I highly, highly recommend(as well as Ruth Painter Randall's incomparable book about MTL) the anthology of MTL's letters by Justin Turner and Linda Leavitt-Turner. It's a compilation of the 600 of her personal letters and correspondence that were known to exist until Jason Emerson's recent discovery of later correspondence written around the period of her incarceration in the mental asylum.

No other Lincoln book you will ever read will give you a more complete window into who this woman really was-the good, the bad, the ugly.

Hello Toia,
no hard feelings – quite in the contrary! I admire your devotion to Mary Lincoln and find it fascinating how much you have read about her.

I’m always a little nervous posting here and worry about making a mistake since a) English is not my first language and b) I’m quite a newbie AND from the „old world“.

To my shame, I have to admit that I find Mary Lincoln, in my studies about Abraham Lincoln, rather uninteresting. Yet, at the same time, I know very little about her and what I know is from letters that either she wrote after his death or letters he wrote to her. But, hopefully I’ll get to learn more about her in the future. Btw, thank you for the rec on the book with the letters - I was looking for a compilation like that. They are all over the place and to have it in one would be great!

I don’t really have any chips in the game, so to speak, when it comes to defending anything or anybody - but I have noted that what you have pointed out to be very true. There are so many people trying to turn Lincoln into some demi god or tyrant born in hell (depending on who you ask) – it makes studying about Abraham Lincoln rather difficult for a foreigner.

I try to rely on original sources as best as I can because, boy, there are some books that cleverly disguise as history books but are purely politics. Which, in itself is amazing to me that a person dead almost 150 years can still have so much influence on today’s public opinion.

But back to the topic of the thread – I got interested because of the Herndon mention.
I still am trying to figure out his credibility and to me, he is quite a fascinating persona to discover and learn about because he was so angry about the deification of Lincoln after his death and originally set out to „put the record straight“.
As I have understood, that backfired badly, yet I see his intention and find it irresistible to not study upon because he claimed that he wanted to do what many people try today – paint a picture of the real person.
Only...he knew that person.
So, that is why I’m curious to make up my mind on him.

I once again agree with you, Abraham Lincoln was not some angel sent from heaven, but a clever and VERY good politician who worked hard on getting to become President.
Therefore, I agree, partly with William C. Harris who said “The marriage improved his social contacts and standing in Springfield, though this benefit probably was not a prime consideration for him in the relationship.”

I’m sure, Lincoln found Mary agreeable – after all, she presented herself as kind (as you pointed out – as we all do) before marriage but I think he knew exactly that marrying into the Todd family would help secure his place.

As for my idea that he was under pressure, I read a long article about this once but – HUGE mistake, I’m still learning – have not secured it.
All I have on file is that it mentioned how he was constantly teased to have fathered one of Hanna Armstrong’s children because he was a bachelor and that it mortified him (http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/philo....lincoln).

As for your mention of the wedding ring – I thought that a very nice touch until the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum had an article up doubting it’s inscription as well (http://alplm.tumblr.com/post/42027293464/eternal).
Sorry, the link is only their tumblr – but I did not receive their newsletter before last year.

Sigh – as I said, for a foreigner without a clear political agenda, it is VERY difficult to study this man.
But that makes it kind of fun, IMO, because here we have all these thousand letters and notes and whatnot…and it is still difficult to figure him out.