Lincoln & Herndon

[LincolnToddFan]

(07-09-2014 05:14 AM)Angela Wrote:  

(07-08-2014 11:42 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  He triumphed over all of the above, yet we are to believe that he was successfully duped, manipulated and then destroyed by a psychologically fragile Southern belle a decade younger than himself??

I am not sure what I wrote that gave you the impression that we are to believe that.
But what I meant is that she wanted to marry a future president, he needed a wife - done. I don't think Mary ever managed to manipulate or destroy Lincoln. Sorry if this came somehow across wrong!

Hi Angela,

You didn't write anything at all that gave me that impression. I made the remark because that's the implication I get after 30+ years of reading MTL detractors. Sorry that I got so worked up!

She wanted to be married to a future president, but I am not sure that I agree that AL necessarily needed a wife. There was and is precedent for a successful man remaining a bachelor. But AL's closest friend Joshua Speed had gotten married, and I think Lincoln wanted the same thing because he was essentially lonely. He took a wife because he wanted his own home and family at that point.

I have never bought into the idea that his choice of Mary was purely strategic. It would go against everything we know about his character, which was that he was an honest and honorable man. To marry a woman simply because you see her as a stepping stone implies a cold, calculating, dishonest nature. It also means he perjured himself at the altar.

And then, there is the inscription he had engraved on her wedding band. For me at least, it ultimately always goes back to that.

I highly, highly recommend(as well as Ruth Painter Randall's incomparable book about MTL) the anthology of MTL's letters by Justin Turner and Linda Leavitt-Turner. It's a compilation of the 600 of her personal letters and correspondence that were known to exist until Jason Emerson's recent discovery of later correspondence written around the period of her incarceration in the mental asylum.

No other Lincoln book you will ever read will give you a more complete window into who this woman really was-the good, the bad, the ugly.

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(07-09-2014 04:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Evans, too, thinks Mary didn't act abnormally till short before "entering" the White House (precisely before the NY shopping sprees).
Would you recommend Epstein's book? Someone said it has some inaccuracies, so I haven't "dared" it yet to read...

Epstein's book is generally excellent but keep in mind that he is a poet, not an historian. He writes like a poet. He has the habit of putting himself into the head of his subject and tells his reader what they must have been thinking and feeling at a particular moment, etc. For some people it might be a turnoff.

I have been reading about the Lincolns for over 30 years. I found not one real inaccuracy in Epstein's book, even though he does make speculations(i.e. venereal disease) that an informed reader is free to accept or reject.His basic premise is that it was a profoundly complex relationship that was based on a foundation of love and mutual understanding, but that the bond between them slowly unraveled by the experience of the Civil War WH. He does not paper over AL's strange, often exasperating, eccentric nature. Mary comes off even worse, with her rages and insecurities. Epstein clearly believes she was mentally ill. Her abnormal behavior began long before the WH years, but didn't become full blown pathology until then.

It was never an easy "hearts and flowers" relationship between soul mates. They learned over the years to accommodate one another, and their "understanding" was eroded both by Mary's progressive illness which became out of control by the end of the marriage, and by the stress of the WH. What's heartbreaking about it is that AL apparently knew what has happening to her. There is a documented conversation where he expresses concern that she is going mad, and asks if there is any way to stop it, or even cure it. It's so very poignant and sad.

But, these two people did indeed love one another right up to the end according to Epstein, and based on everything else I have learned about them over the years I agree with him.