Andrew Johnson - Mistress

[jparkuntz]

(11-17-2017 02:08 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(11-17-2017 12:20 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have tried to enlarge that clipping both at home and on my work computer, and all I get is a very distorted, unreadable image.

The same is true for me.

Try this png copy (attached) from New York Sun 0f 12/19/1885. You'll see it says he went out with Eusebia, and returned much later, and wasn't told about the assassination until morning (which contradicts all other accounts).

[RJNorton]

Thanks, Jerry. I agree with you. Johnson walked (with Farwell) from the Kirkwood House to the Petersen House c. 2:00 A.M. He was there briefly and then walked back to the Kirkwood House. Both clerks at the Kirkwood House gave statements - no mention of Johnson leaving with a woman.

[Steve]

Here's a link to a copy of the complete text of Farwell's 8 February 1866 letter to the Wisconsin Historical Society about what happened the night of the assassination:

https://books.google.com/books?id=v0jr52...&q&f=false

[JMadonna]

(11-18-2017 05:02 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Both clerks at the Kirkwood House gave statements - no mention of Johnson leaving with a woman.

Neither would I expect one.

[Gene C]

One (maybe two) would think that if Johnson was with a woman that night someone would have seen something. The night has a thousand eyes.

Which reminds me of a song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssCLB6Y8zjA

[RJNorton]

(11-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gene C Wrote:  One (maybe two) would think that if Johnson was with a women that night someone would have seen something. The night has a thousand eyes.

I agree, Gene, but I still think there's a chance Johnson had a woman in his room when Farwell knocked. Farwell didn't give his statement until February of 1866. Yet he made sure to include that there was a gap between when he knocked and when Johnson answered. I assume the adrenalin was flowing, and Farwell's knock was forceful. I suppose the gap could be due to Johnson being in a deep sleep and not dressed, but it could also be due to the woman needing time to hide before Farwell was allowed to enter. The fact that Farwell remembered this gap in time almost 10 months later means it was long enough that it impacted him. Otherwise why include it in the account.

[L Verge]

(11-18-2017 08:39 PM)Steve Wrote:  Here's a link to a copy of the complete text of Farwell's 8 February 1866 letter to the Wisconsin Historical Society about what happened the night of the assassination:

https://books.google.com/books?id=v0jr52...&q&f=false

Thank you for posting this, Steve, and in reading and re-reading this Farwell description of that night (given in 1866, btw) - specifically on page 562 - I see nothing to indicate that there was any unusual delay between Farwell knocking twice, hearing Johnson supposedly getting out of bed, confirming that it was Farwell and then opening the door.

The hotel clerks had obeyed Farwell's hastily given orders to have guards placed at the door to the room, etc. Unless any female could quickly dress in all their underlayers and street dress and escape out a window and down a fire escape (was there such a thing at the Kirkwood?) to disappear without anyone seeing her, I think the aforementioned theory of Johnson being distracted by feminine wiles is highly unlikely.

[RJNorton]

Many thanks to Steve for sending this article along with the following note:

"I'm sending another article about the John W. Starr estate that I found which has some more information about Ella than the others did.

The article is from page 4 of the July 16, 1883 edition of the Washington Evening Star. A reporter asked Ella's sister where Ella/Nelly was living and the sister replied "New York". Although considering some of the sister's answers to other questions by the reporter, I don't know if that can be believed."

[JMadonna]

(11-19-2017 10:47 AM)L Verge Wrote:  The hotel clerks had obeyed Farwell's hastily given orders to have guards placed at the door to the room, etc. Unless any female could quickly dress in all their underlayers and street dress and escape out a window and down a fire escape (was there such a thing at the Kirkwood?) to disappear without anyone seeing her, I think the aforementioned theory of Johnson being distracted by feminine wiles is highly unlikely.

Oh come on Laurie, apparently you don't know of 'the code'. No man tells of anothers indiscretions.

Here is an example of the exploits of senators that you've known and maybe voted for:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...99530.html

PS - I know of others too - God rest their souls

[L Verge]

I am well aware of "the code," Jerry and lived through a many a scandal here in D.C. I suspect that we who live right next door to sin city know more than the rest of you outside the realm. There used to be a very popular tour that the public could take in order to learn about the escapades of their elected and non-elected miscreants. Frank Hebblethwaite, a wonderful employee of the NPS at Ford's Theatre years ago, once commented to a large group of us that no one could keep a secret in D.C. for more than two minutes...

Call me upstanding, but I happen to think that in a situation such as the Lincoln assassination, where the safety of the VP was very important, those guards and those clerks would have reported a lady indisposed and then scrambling to make an exit. I also think that it was pretty stupid of Farwell and Johnson to go out onto the streets at that time. Some men have no common sense, however.

BTW: There is a member of the Surratt Society who retired after many years in the top levels of the Secret Service, beginning in the Johnson regime. He once regaled us with facts and figures as to how many assassination plots and attempts are stopped and kept out of the press. It's pretty scary.

[Steve]

In regards to the new article I had posted, I just wanted to point out that the top part of the article says that according to the court proceedings John W. Starr had a half-sister living in Maryland who isn't named. But when the reporter interviews sister Mollie Turner/Mary Jane Treakle, Mollie says that Nelly/Ella is living in New York.

From what I've read Ella was a half-sister to John and Mollie, sharing the same mother but having an unknown father after the elder Starr's death. Now I suppose the half-sister could be a daughter of the elder Starr's first marriage, but what if Mollie just told the reporter that Ella was living in New York to try and send the reporters on a snipe hunt? Some of the other details she gave the reporter, like Ella actually marrying Booth (untrue) or having another deceased sister who had been married to a Senator (dubious) would suggest that possibility.

[JMadonna]

(11-19-2017 06:12 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Call me upstanding, but I happen to think that in a situation such as the Lincoln assassination, where the safety of the VP was very important, those guards and those clerks would have reported a lady indisposed and then scrambling to make an exit. BTW: There is a member of the Surratt Society who retired after many years in the top levels of the Secret Service, beginning in the Johnson regime. He once regaled us with facts and figures as to how many assassination plots and attempts are stopped and kept out of the press. It's pretty scary.

Ok, lets say they reported a half naked woman fleeing Johnson's room (on her way to committing suicide no less). What makes you believe that Stanton would let that become part of the official record?

[RJNorton]

(11-19-2017 08:52 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  Ok, lets say they reported a half naked woman fleeing Johnson's room (on her way to committing suicide no less). What makes you believe that Stanton would let that become part of the official record?

Jerry, if your theory is correct, wouldn't Ella have remained hidden until Johnson and Farwell departed the room at about 1:30 A.M. to walk to the Petersen House? I am guessing she was in the other room of Johnson's two-room suite at the Kirkwood House.

[Gene C]

(11-19-2017 08:52 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  Ok, lets say they reported a half naked woman fleeing Johnson's room (on her way to committing suicide no less). What makes you believe that Stanton would let that become part of the official record?

Considering the warm personal regard between Stanton and Johnson, I think it's possible something like that could have come out during Johnson's impeachment hearings. Definitely maybe.

[JMadonna]

(11-20-2017 07:43 AM)Gene C Wrote:  Considering the warm personal regard between Stanton and Johnson, I think it's possible something like that could have come out during Johnson's impeachment hearings. Definitely maybe.

True, but by that time it would have been too late. Remember, the country was in a teetering crisis in April 65. Stanton had to circle the wagons.

Besides by the impeachment hearings, sleeping with a hooker would not have affected the outcome. Bribery of Senators is what saved his a--.