Just a thought from me regarding why Johnson was not out celebrating on the night of the assassination: Wasn't the VP sort of a pariah after his "performance" at the Second Inaugural? Who were his friends in DC that he might party with? Wasn't Stanton at home and unoccupied with partying that night also?

Johnson may have been a man who craved sexual attention at times, but for some reason I just don't see it happening in a public hotel once he became VP. I am more inclined to see him staying home and brooding over drinks after being rebuffed by so many colleagues after his inauguration.

(11-17-2017 04:52 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 09:29 PM)jparkuntz Wrote:  even though one apocryphal report from 1885 says that Johnson left the hotel with her (not that she was in his room).

Jerry K., can you post any more information/details about this apocryphal report? As far as I know, Johnson only left his room once that evening. This was to make an extremely short visit to Lincoln's bedside at the Petersen House. Then he returned to the Kirkwood House and remained there. In fact Johnson was still there at the Kirkwood House when he was sworn in by Chase at 10:00 A.M. Saturday morning.

The clipping is attached to message #1 of this thread

(11-17-2017 11:17 AM)jparkuntz Wrote:  

(11-17-2017 04:52 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 09:29 PM)jparkuntz Wrote:  even though one apocryphal report from 1885 says that Johnson left the hotel with her (not that she was in his room).

Jerry K., can you post any more information/details about this apocryphal report? As far as I know, Johnson only left his room once that evening. This was to make an extremely short visit to Lincoln's bedside at the Petersen House. Then he returned to the Kirkwood House and remained there. In fact Johnson was still there at the Kirkwood House when he was sworn in by Chase at 10:00 A.M. Saturday morning.

The clipping is attached to message #1 of this thread

I have tried to enlarge that clipping both at home and on my work computer, and all I get is a very distorted, unreadable image.

(11-17-2017 12:20 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have tried to enlarge that clipping both at home and on my work computer, and all I get is a very distorted, unreadable image.

The same is true for me.

(11-17-2017 09:13 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Just a thought from me regarding why Johnson was not out celebrating on the night of the assassination: Wasn't the VP sort of a pariah after his "performance" at the Second Inaugural? Who were his friends in DC that he might party with? Wasn't Stanton at home and unoccupied with partying that night also?

Johnson may have been a man who craved sexual attention at times, but for some reason I just don't see it happening in a public hotel once he became VP. I am more inclined to see him staying home and brooding over drinks after being rebuffed by so many colleagues after his inauguration.

1. Johnson was in deed a political albatross but he had many drinking friends. John W. Forney was probably the most prominent. (or was that a test question from you?)

2, Remember there was no official residence for the VP at that time which is why he was in the hotel. Where else was he going to it? They didn't have Air Force 1 or even sleazy motels either.

3. He was not rebuffed in private ( there but for the grace of God...) Stringfellow stayed in the room near him to listen about what was said from his visitors.

I'm sorry that you don't believe Washington wasn't a cesspool in the 1860s. It hasn't changed much

I have not heard back from Jenny, but many thanks to Steve for sending these Ella Starr-related articles. The first article is an interview a couple of decades later with an unnamed hotel worker who claimed that he worked with the Starr/Turner sisters by sending hotel guests to their establishment. He also claims that Ella faked her suicide attempt. The other articles relate to the fight over the estate of Ella's brother, John. Ella wasn't involved but it is interesting to read.

For those of you who want reference information for the articles above from top to bottom in the order Roger posted them:

1. 12 Dec. 1885 St. Louis Dispatch pg. 11

2. 1 April 1887 Washington National Republican pg. 3

3. 15 July 1883 (Chicago) The Inter-Ocean pg. 3

4. 1 Aug. 1883 Washington Evening Star pg. 4

(11-17-2017 04:08 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  

(11-17-2017 09:13 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Just a thought from me regarding why Johnson was not out celebrating on the night of the assassination: Wasn't the VP sort of a pariah after his "performance" at the Second Inaugural? Who were his friends in DC that he might party with? Wasn't Stanton at home and unoccupied with partying that night also?

Johnson may have been a man who craved sexual attention at times, but for some reason I just don't see it happening in a public hotel once he became VP. I am more inclined to see him staying home and brooding over drinks after being rebuffed by so many colleagues after his inauguration.

1. Johnson was in deed a political albatross but he had many drinking friends. John W. Forney was probably the most prominent. (or was that a test question from you?)

2, Remember there was no official residence for the VP at that time which is why he was in the hotel. Where else was he going to it? They didn't have Air Force 1 or even sleazy motels either.

3. He was not rebuffed in private ( there but for the grace of God...) Stringfellow stayed in the room near him to listen about what was said from his visitors.

I'm sorry that you don't believe Washington wasn't a cesspool in the 1860s. It hasn't changed much

1.Johnson may have had many drinking friends, but how public were they when imbibing? Especially after his fiasco at the inauguration, I would think the VP would avoid any public drinking displays - more reason to stay home.

2. It has been in my lifetime that the VP actually acquired an official residence. I well remember the Secret Service details around various VPs private homes. As far as Johnson having soiled doves come to him, I believe that the accepted standard of the day in such matters was to go to brothels, away from the public eye and where the "inmates" (as they were called) knew to keep their mouths shut.

3. I forget from your book - do you think Stringfellow worked with Johnson to undermine the government?

I have no idea where you picked up the idea that I thought Washington was prim and proper (i.e. not a cesspool in 1865). I know the history of my nearby city quite well, and you can't bring hordes of soldiers and hundreds of politicians and their followers together in one place during a civil war and expect moonlight and roses. As far as Washington today, I still consider it a beautiful and scenic city. Politically, however, it may likely be a worse cesspool in 2017 than it was in 1865.

1.Johnson may have had many drinking friends, but how public were they when imbibing? Especially after his fiasco at the inauguration, I would think the VP would avoid any public drinking displays - more reason to stay home.

----I would think so too but he managed to get sloshed just before taking the presidential oath that morning. He definitely had an alcohol problem.

2. I believe that the accepted standard of the day in such matters was to go to brothels, away from the public eye and where the "inmates" (as they were called) knew to keep their mouths shut.

-----That's true but rank has its privileges and as a favor to Booth (plus something extra for her travel) it could definitely be arranged.

-----Thanks to Roger for his post. I was not aware that Booth met with Ella a few hours before the assassination. That certainly strengthens my case.

3. I forget from your book - do you think Stringfellow worked with Johnson to undermine the government?

---No way. Johnson was an ignorant racist but he wasn't stupid.

* I have no idea where you picked up the idea that I thought Washington was prim and proper.

---Because of your position that Booth wouldn't put Ella in harms way. Its sweet. Kind of like the 'hooker with a heart of gold' cliche.

---The only woman Booth would not put in harms way was probably his mother. But if she was sitting next to Lincoln, I have no doubt he still would have pulled the trigger

* Politically, however, it may likely be a worse cesspool in 2017 than it was in 1865.

--- That depends if you would prefer Physical Assassination to Character Assassination.
[/quote]

Here is an image of Ella's post-assassination 15 April 1865 statement:


Note that "Fannie Harrison" is a signature by somebody else and not an alias of Ella, presumably a witness to Ella signing the statement again (as "Ella Starr") at a later time. I'm not sure why she would need to sign it again if nothing was amended or added to the statement. I suppose it might have to do with her not having reached the age of majority (twenty-one) with that fact missed in the chaos of April 15th. Although minors could testify in court, I don't know if they could legally sign this type of affidavit by themselves or not at the time. (I'm sure it was done all the time in less conspicuous circumstances but if there was some type of legal problem with doing that, it wasn't going to be ignored in such a public investigation.)

and here's an image of the letter she left for Booth on (7?) Feb 1865:


Note that Loux's Booth Day by Day has Booth leaving Washington on the evening of 28 January 1865 and not returning to Washington until 22 February 1865. On 7 February 1865 (if that is indeed how the date is supposed to be read), Booth was in New York.

Was the suicide attempt real or fake? Jenny once posted:

The Evening Star of April 15, 1865, pg. 2, Col. 6 gives details: "THE MISTRESS OF BOOTH ATTEMPTS TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Ella Turner [no idea where that came from unless she adopted her sister's technique of taking a different last name], the mistress of John Wilkes Booth, No. 62 Ohio Avenue, attempted to commit suicide this morning by taking chloroform. About 11 o'clock, some of the inmates of the house entered Ella's room and found her lying upon the bed apparently sleeping. Efforts to rouse her proved fruitless, several physicians were called in, when it was discovered that she had taken chloroform. The proper remedies were immediately applied, when Ella soon revived and asked for Booth's picture, which she had concealed under the pillow of her bed, at the same time remarking to the physicians that she did not thank them for saving her life. The house No. 62 Ohio avenue is kept by Ella Turner's sister.

(11-18-2017 05:11 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Was the suicide attempt real or fake? Jenny once posted:

The Evening Star of April 15, 1865, pg. 2, Col. 6 gives details: "THE MISTRESS OF BOOTH ATTEMPTS TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Ella Turner [no idea where that came from unless she adopted her sister's technique of taking a different last name], the mistress of John Wilkes Booth, No. 62 Ohio Avenue, attempted to commit suicide this morning by taking chloroform. About 11 o'clock, some of the inmates of the house entered Ella's room and found her lying upon the bed apparently sleeping. Efforts to rouse her proved fruitless, several physicians were called in, when it was discovered that she had taken chloroform. The proper remedies were immediately applied, when Ella soon revived and asked for Booth's picture, which she had concealed under the pillow of her bed, at the same time remarking to the physicians that she did not thank them for saving her life. The house No. 62 Ohio avenue is kept by Ella Turner's sister.

The term "taking" chloroform is somewhat confusing since it is (and always has been?) inhaled.

---

(11-17-2017 08:03 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  1.Johnson may have had many drinking friends, but how public were they when imbibing? Especially after his fiasco at the inauguration, I would think the VP would avoid any public drinking displays - more reason to stay home.

----I would think so too but he managed to get sloshed just before taking the presidential oath that morning. He definitely had an alcohol problem.

2. I believe that the accepted standard of the day in such matters was to go to brothels, away from the public eye and where the "inmates" (as they were called) knew to keep their mouths shut.

-----That's true but rank has its privileges and as a favor to Booth (plus something extra for her travel) it could definitely be arranged.

-----Thanks to Roger for his post. I was not aware that Booth met with Ella a few hours before the assassination. That certainly strengthens my case.

3. I forget from your book - do you think Stringfellow worked with Johnson to undermine the government?

---No way. Johnson was an ignorant racist but he wasn't stupid.

* I have no idea where you picked up the idea that I thought Washington was prim and proper.

---Because of your position that Booth wouldn't put Ella in harms way. Its sweet. Kind of like the 'hooker with a heart of gold' cliche.

---The only woman Booth would not put in harms way was probably his mother. But if she was sitting next to Lincoln, I have no doubt he still would have pulled the trigger

* Politically, however, it may likely be a worse cesspool in 2017 than it was in 1865.

--- That depends if you would prefer Physical Assassination to Character Assassination.

"-----Thanks to Roger for his post. I was not aware that Booth met with Ella a few hours before the assassination. That certainly strengthens my case."

Not sure how reliable that second-hand information from "an informant" in a newspaper account is. Is there any corroborating statement elsewhere? Does Loux mention this? I'm posting from home and the book is at work.

Laurie, the last time Art Loux mentions her being with Booth is "on or about" Wednesday, March 29. However, he uses Ella's own statement that Steve posted above as his source. If Ella really saw Booth on the day of the assassination she left it out of her statement.

(11-18-2017 01:40 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Laurie, the last time Art Loux mentions her being with Booth is "on or about" Wednesday, March 29. However, he uses Ella's own statement that Steve posted above as his source. If Ella really saw Booth on the day of the assassination she left it out of her statement.

Thanks for checking on that for me, Roger. Just my personal opinion, but I doubt seriously that Booth had any thoughts about Ella as he prepared for his "big moment."

I think the possibility that Starr faked the suicide attempt cannot be ignored, especially with the anonymous account 20 years later. But from reading the newspaper accounts it sure does seem like that Ella actually took the chloroform and was unconscious. That, along with the recovered note to Booth makes me think the attempt was real and not a fake, whether or not it was half-hearted. But I don't think there's any way we'll know for sure now.

I also doubt the anonymous newspaper account that Booth saw Starr right before the assassination. I suspect the source may actually have known Ella and her sister in Washington but he seems catty in his attitude toward her.