Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed

[HerbS]

Linda,I lost my wife 2yrs ago to "Dementia"and it was very painful for all of us.She was moved to a Hospice Center and I remember them telling her,"It's ok now-Let Yourself go."

[Linda Anderson]

I'm sorry, Herb. It sounds like your wife was in a very loving place when she died.

[My Name Is Kate]

Why wasn't Stanton at the White House, or elsewhere, taking care of business?

Why was Mary's grief labeled "hysterical"? Do people have to be politically correct even after witnessing the murder of their beloved spouse?

[Gene C]

When Stanton heard the news that the president had been shot, Stanton, and other government officials hurried to where the president was. It was easier for Stanton to "take care of business" at the Petersen House, across the street from Ford's theater, because eye witnesses were still available, and the close proximate to the scene of the crime. Like many in the president's cabinet and who were close to him, they wanted to be near Mr. Lincoln when the end came.

According to some witnesses, Mrs Lincoln' grief was uncontrollable and very loud. The Peterson House was not a large home, and the rooms were on the small side. It didn't take long for the house to became very crowded.

[GARY POPOLO]

Herb, I want to offer you my condolences for the loss of your wife. It must have been a very difficult time in your life. I wish you all the best in the future. Best Gary

[My Name Is Kate]

It's easy to see how Mary was being an unsettling influence on the others present. But the words "that woman" are what I find offensive. It's obvious Stanton wasn't thinking about what was best for Mary. And if he was thinking about peace and quiet for the dying Lincoln, I don't think he would have referred to his wife in that way. I think he was thinking about himself.

I wonder if anyone bothered to talk with Tad and ask him if he wanted to see his Dad for one last time, or did they just decide, without Mary being involved in the decision, that it would be best he not be present?

Stanton wasn't present at the conspirator executions, was he? I wonder how well he would have handled that sight.

(I just read this on Wikipedia. It seems Stanton had his share of tragedies too, so maybe that is why he couldn't cope with Mary's reaction. Still...)

"On May 31, 1836, Edwin Stanton married Mary Lamson, and they had two children: Lucy Lamson Stanton (b. March 11, 1837) and Edwin Lamson Stanton (b. August 1842). They built a house in the small town of Cadiz, Ohio, and he practiced law there. Their daughter Lucy died in 1841 and their son Edwin died in 1877.

Mary Lamson Stanton died on March 13, 1844. The loss of his beloved wife sent Stanton spiraling into a deep depression. Then, in 1846, Stanton's brother Darwin cut his own throat – "The blood spouted up to the ceiling," a doctor recalled."

[RJNorton]

RE: "Take that woman out and do not let her in again."

I do not know whether Stanton really did or did not say this, but I believe we are relying on one man's memory 44 years after the fact. The quote comes from Dr. Leale's "Lincoln’s Last Hours” address given in 1909. It is not in any of his earlier accounts. I also cannot find it in Mrs. Dixon's account, Dr. Taft's account, or Gideon Welles' diary. Is there another source that quotes Stanton in this manner? If so, I will withdraw this post.

I don't mean to take anything away anything from Dr. Leale, but I know there are some who feel Dr. Leale did some embellishing in his 1909 account. I once talked to a doctor who argued vehemently that Dr. Leale may not have done all he said he did in his 1909 address.

We have discussed before on this forum the reliability (or lack of it) regarding the reminiscences of folks 30, 40, 50 years after the event, and once again we are in the position of accepting (or not accepting) the truthfulness of one man's memory. As far as I know this quote did not become "history" until 1909.

[Eva Elisabeth]

The arguments for having Mary out of the room may be reasonable (especially to all not in Mary’s situation), but to me they seem not human. Many people would have acted the same as Mary did, and I think this is the more natural behaviour than being totally under control. (Mediterranian and Near Eastern cultures even had and still have professional mourners payed for loud, almost hysteric beweeping. This is really bloodcurdling.) Mary had to share her husband with his duties and all the people most of the time, and even in this moment she was banned while others that were much more distant to Lincoln were allowed to stay.
Gene, you say “they wanted to be near Mr Lincoln when the end came”. This is exactly what Mary wanted. I just found a quote that she repeatedly exclaimed: “Oh, why did you not tell me that he was dying?” (NY Herald, April 16,1865).
Reason is one thing, but IMO tolerance of others emotions is sometimes important, too. And it’s always easy to be reasonable if you haven’t experienced the opposite yourself.

I wonder if the others, in case Stanton had not been there, would have banned her, too.

Another question: Who exactly was in the room with Lincoln when he died? AFAIK, Robert, the cabinet members (except of Seward, of course), Sumner, Rev. Gurley, Hay, and Dres. Leale, Taft, Stone and Barnes. Anyone else? And what happened to Rathbone after he had been wounded?

[HerbS]

Thanks Gary,I have always been a survivor and this dreadful experience has taken a lot out of me.-Herb

[Laurie Verge]

Years ago, a student of Dr. Terry Alford did an excellent paper on The Rubber Room discussing how many people could actually verify that they were present at the moment Lincoln was declared dead. Anyone who has visited the Petersen House knows that the house itself is small before you even consider the room in which the President died. The student's title of her paper was later transferred to a small booklet done by Frank Williams and Harold Holzer of The Lincoln forum.

That said, I cannot confidently list all the people who were supposedly in that room. I can say that Robert Lincoln was there -- and that begs the question as to what was his reaction upon hearing his mother ordered out of and barred from the room... I would think that the son's wishes would have been listened to - even going against the powerful Stanton.

As for Henry Rathbone: From what I have read, he was at the Petersen House for a short period before he became so weak from loss of blood that he was sent to the Harris home to be tended.

[J. Beckert]

The ones I can think of off the top of my head - Stanton, Welles, Sumner, RTL, Leale and 3 (?) other medical Docors, Dr. Gurley - seem like a crowd for that small room.

[Linda Anderson]

James Wormley, "the celebrated hotel proprietor," was reported as being present at Lincoln's deathbed. Critic-Record, "James Wormley's Death," October 20, 1884

"Mr. Wormley was present at the death bed of Lincoln, and he appears as the only colored man in Littlefield's picture of the death of the President. He was also present at the deathbed of Sumner."

Wormley started his career as a hack driver, worked his way to owning his own livery service and went on to become the steward of the Washington Club in the same house where Seward was later attacked. He opened Wormley's Hotel in 1871.

"Mr. Wormley's patrons numbered among them some of the most gentlemen and ladies of this and other countries. He was a master of diplomacy as well as the art of cuisine. New York Globe October 25, 1884.

"It has been learned since his death that for a number of years he has been supporting three white families, the heads of which were once counted as the most wealthy and aristocratic of the Virginians." Boston Journal. October 21, 1884,

It would be great if he had kept a diary but somehow I don't think he did.

[calebj123]

(06-28-2013 07:58 AM)Laurie Verge Wrote:  Years ago, a student of Dr. Terry Alford did an excellent paper on The Rubber Room discussing how many people could actually verify that they were present at the moment Lincoln was declared dead. Anyone who has visited the Petersen House knows that the house itself is small before you even consider the room in which the President died. The student's title of her paper was later transferred to a small booklet done by Frank Williams and Harold Holzer of The Lincoln forum.

That said, I cannot confidently list all the people who were supposedly in that room. I can say that Robert Lincoln was there -- and that begs the question as to what was his reaction upon hearing his mother ordered out of and barred from the room... I would think that the son's wishes would have been listened to - even going against the powerful Stanton.

As for Henry Rathbone: From what I have read, he was at the Petersen House for a short period before he became so weak from loss of blood that he was sent to the Harris home to be tended.

You are right about Rathbone, he wasn't at the house very long. He fainted not long after they got Lincoln to the house. Clara wrapped his wound and then her and Provost Marshal O'Beirne put him in a carriage to Senator Harris' home.

[Donna McCreary]

Can anyone verify if Dr. Lyman Beecher Todd was at the Peterson Home that evening? I've read in several of the Todd family papers that he tended to Lincoln that evening. He was in Washington DC and shortly after Lincoln's death LBT sent several telegrams on Mary's behalf. If he was not in the room when Lincoln died, I wonder if he could have been tending to "Cousin Mary."

[RJNorton]

Donna, in the current issue of the Journal of the Lincoln Assassination, Fred Hatch has listed all those who were present for at least a part of the night. Fred's criteria to make the list was that there must be more than one source that lists the person as present. Dr. Lyman B. Todd is in Fred's list.