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+--- Thread: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 (/thread-4500.html)
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ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Anita - 04-11-2021 02:13 PM
The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum issued a statement Thursday, announcing a split with the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation, which did fundraising and artifact acquisition for the facility.
The Foundation and the ALPLM have had years of friction, including the controversal purchase of a stovepipe hat, supposedly belonging to Lincoln, but whose lineage is increasingly in doubt.
The Foundation sold memberships to the museum. Those will still be honored, according to the statement.
Read more here.
https://www.nprillinois.org/post/alplm-cuts-ties-library-foundation#stream/0
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - LincolnMan - 04-11-2021 05:31 PM
I’m not sure what to think of this but I hope that it works out well n the end. Thanks for posting it.
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Anita - 04-12-2021 10:28 AM
(04-11-2021 05:31 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: I’m not sure what to think of this but I hope that it works out well n the end. Thanks for posting it.
I'm not sure what to think of this either! I just hope that when the remainder of the loan comes due in October of 2022 the funds are there.
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Gene C - 04-12-2021 10:52 AM
I don't know what to think of it either, but it does remind me of a nice Irish song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpgP2Gtx8QY
(Hold On To Your Hat by Derek Ryan, I especially like the lyrics beginning at 1:15)
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 04-12-2021 12:26 PM
(04-11-2021 02:13 PM)Anita Wrote: The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum issued a statement Thursday, announcing a split with the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation, which did fundraising and artifact acquisition for the facility.
The Foundation and the ALPLM have had years of friction, including the controversal purchase of a stovepipe hat, supposedly belonging to Lincoln, but whose lineage is increasingly in doubt.
As I recall, the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation made the assessment of authenticity and thus value, and then the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum paid the price.
What is the status of this issue?
(04-11-2021 02:13 PM)Anita Wrote: The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum issued a statement Thursday, announcing a split with the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation, which did fundraising and artifact acquisition for the facility.
Read more here.
https://www.nprillinois.org/post/alplm-cuts-ties-library-foundation#stream/0
An informative quote from the article:
"[T]he ALPLM feels it is vital for the Foundation to disclose how much money it raises, where that money goes, and what fundraising plans are in the works to support this institution.
The Foundation is unwilling to provide satisfactory answers to those questions."
Sounds like an exceedingly reasonable request to me.
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - RJNorton - 11-03-2022 09:26 AM
https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/history/2022/11/02/artifacts-removed-from-abraham-lincoln-presidential-library-museum/69612946007/
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 11-03-2022 10:16 AM
(11-03-2022 09:26 AM)RJNorton Wrote: https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/history/2022/11/02/artifacts-removed-from-abraham-lincoln-presidential-library-museum/69612946007/
In describing the relationship between the two parties, the author of the State Journal-Register article writes:
Quote:In a letter to staff, ALPLM director Christina Shutt noted the foundation borrowed millions of dollars to buy the collection with the idea that it would be given to the state of Illinois once that debt was paid off.
Since the purchase in 2007, the ALPLM and the foundation had a loan agreement that called for the ALPLM "to house and protect the collection, allowing our institution to display, research and showcase artifacts in the museum," Shutt said.
This situation reminds me in many respects of Lincoln's legal representation in the Snow Brothers case.
RJNorton Wrote:
http://www.hellenicaworld.com/USA/Litera...coln2.html
Roger, thanks very much for this hyperlink.
Lincoln and the Snow Brothers case:
In the spring term of the Tazewell County Court in 1847, which at that time was held in the village of Tremont, I was detained as a witness an entire week. Lincoln was employed in several suits, and among them was one of Case vs. Snow Bros. The Snow Bros., as appeared in evidence (who were both minors), had purchased from an old Mr. Case what was then called a "prairie team," consisting of two or three yoke of oxen and prairie plow, giving therefor their joint note for some two hundred dollars; but when pay-day came refused to pay, pleading the minor act.
The note was placed in Lincoln's hands for collection. The suit was called and a jury impaneled. The Snow Bros, did not deny the note, but pleaded through their counsel that they were minors, and that Mr. Case knew they were at the time of the contract and conveyance. All this was admitted by Mr. Lincoln, with his peculiar phrase, "Yes, gentlemen, I reckon that's so." The minor act was read and its validity admitted in the same manner. The counsel of the defendants were permitted without question to state all these things to the jury, and to show by the statute that these minors could not be held responsible for their contract. By this time you may well suppose that I began to be uneasy. "What!" thought I, "this good old man, who confided in these boys, to be wronged in this way, and even his counsel, Mr. Lincoln, to submit in silence!" I looked at the court, Judge Treat, but could read nothing in his calm and dignified demeanor.
Just then, Mr. Lincoln slowly got up, and in his strange, half-erect attitude and clear, quiet accent began: "Gentlemen of the Jury, are you willing to allow these boys to begin life with this shame and disgrace attached to their character? If you are, I am not. The best judge of human character that ever wrote has left these immortal words for all of us to ponder":
"Good name in man or woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls:
Who steals my purse steals trash;'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine,'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed."
Then rising to his full height, and looking upon the defendants with the compassion of a brother, his long right arm extended toward the opposing counsel, he continued: "Gentlemen of the jury, these poor innocent boys would never have attempted this low villainy had it not been for the advice of these lawyers." Then for a few minutes he showed how even the noble science of law may be prostituted. With a scathing rebuke to those who thus belittle their profession, he concluded: "And now, gentlemen, you have it in your power to set these boys right before the world."
He plead for the young men only; I think he did not mention his client's name. The jury, without leaving their seats, decided that the defendants must pay the debt; and the latter, after hearing Lincoln, were as willing to pay it as the jury were determined they should. I think the entire argument lasted not above five minutes.
—George W. Minier, statement, Apr. 10, 1882.
[Edited for clarity and easier reading.]
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Gene C - 11-03-2022 02:59 PM
Anyone know how much is outstanding on the debt?
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - RJNorton - 11-04-2022 09:43 AM
(11-03-2022 02:59 PM)Gene C Wrote: Anyone know how much is outstanding on the debt?
$8 million-plus
https://chicago.suntimes.com/metro-state/2022/11/3/23439149/lincoln-artifacts-springfield-museum-feud
https://wlds.com/lincoln-foundation-removes-collection-from-alplm-over-debt-disagreement/
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 11-04-2022 10:40 AM
(11-04-2022 09:43 AM)RJNorton Wrote: https://chicago.suntimes.com/metro-state/2022/11/3/23439149/lincoln-artifacts-springfield-museum-feud
Quotation from this article reads:
Relations between the museum and foundation began to sour years ago, amid questions over financial transparency and stalled negotiations over how the two entities would legally coexist with one another. The feuding coincided with reporting by the Sun-Times and later WBEZ that raised serious questions about the provenance of the stovepipe hat, which was once regarded as the cornerstone of the Taper acquisition.
In 2019, a 16-month state study by former Illinois State Historian Samuel Wheeler found no evidence to authenticate the hat, noting that it did not appear to be Lincoln’s size. Wheeler’s study also found the hat was sold in the 1950s to a downstate antique shop for just $1, and its alleged connection to Lincoln wasn’t even known to descendants of its original owners.
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Gene C - 11-04-2022 11:54 AM
Interesting to note that according to the article from the Chicago Sun Times, "the foundation has revealed that it had the money to pay off the remaining debt on the collection"
So, what happened to the money, and has any gov't agency investigated this?
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 11-04-2022 12:47 PM
(11-04-2022 11:54 AM)Gene C Wrote: Interesting to note that according to the article from the Chicago Sun Times, "the foundation has revealed that it had the money to pay off the remaining debt on the collection"
So, what happened to the money, and has any gov't agency investigated this?
I think that the basic issue is whether the stovepipe hat is worth either $1 or $8,000,000?
Assuming that one dollar was the fair value, who did the eight million dollar estimate and did a major portion of the inflated value end up in their pockets?
This is an issue for the courts to decide on the evidence.
(11-04-2022 12:47 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:(11-04-2022 11:54 AM)Gene C Wrote: Interesting to note that according to the article from the Chicago Sun Times, "the foundation has revealed that it had the money to pay off the remaining debt on the collection"
So, what happened to the money, and has any gov't agency investigated this?
I think that the basic issue is whether the stovepipe hat is worth either $1 or $8,000,000?
Assuming that one dollar was the fair value, who did the eight million dollar estimate and did a major portion of the inflated value end up in their pockets?
This is an issue for the courts to decide on the evidence.
Roger posted an entry in September, 2014 - News and Announcements / Abraham Lincoln's Stovepipe Hat, Etc. Post #1
Washington Post - Artifacts under the lights for documentary marking anniversary of Lincoln’s murder
As he entered the presidential box at Ford’s Theatre the night of April 14, 1865, Lincoln removed his hat and put it down. It was found there in the hours after the assassination, and is now one of the Smithsonian’s most cherished objects.
The single piece of evidence needed to discredit the stovepipe hat in question is the precise hat size of the proven President Lincoln stovepipe hat "now one of the Smithsonian’s most cherished objects."
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 11-05-2022 04:18 PM
Abraham Lincoln's Stovepipe Hat is Wrong Size, No Evidence It Actually Belonged to Him, 16-Month State Study Finds
BY MELISSA LEMIEUX 12/23/19
That study, undertaken by Illinois State Historian Samuel Wheeler, shows that there's no solid connection between the hat and any sign of ownership by the president.
In fact, the hat was at one point sold for $1 at an antique shop in 1950s, and the original seller had no material proof that it was Lincoln's. From that store, Lincoln artifact collector and Illinois state-employed curator of Lincoln artifacts for preservation James Hickey bought the hat. He then sold the hat to Lincoln artifact collector and eventual one-time museum board member Louise Taper, for an undisclosed sum. She in turn sold it to the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation, which bought it for the museum. At appraisal, it was later declared to be worth $6.5 million, part of the $25 million cache of artifacts used to establish the museum.
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - Dave Taylor - 11-16-2022 12:20 PM
I was quite upset when I heard the Taper collection had been taken away. It has some really amazing things, especially revolving around Lincoln’s assassination. Like many who had just followed the press reports, I thought the Foundation was solely to blame. However, after reading through the 2019 report from Dr. Samuel Wheeler, the former Illinois State Historian, it’s clear there’s a lot of blame to be had by ALPLM administrators who spend years fighting with their partner foundation.
For those interested, I used Dr. Wheeler’s report to write a deep history of the acquisition of the Taper collection and what led to it leaving the ALPLM two weeks ago.
https://lincolnconspirators.com/2022/11/15/how-the-alplm-lost-the-taper-collection/
RE: ALPLM Cuts Ties With Library Foundation By SEAN CRAWFORD • APR 1, 2021 - David Lockmiller - 11-16-2022 02:58 PM
(11-16-2022 12:20 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: For those interested, I used Dr. Wheeler’s report to write a deep history of the acquisition of the Taper collection and what led to it leaving the ALPLM two weeks ago.
https://lincolnconspirators.com/2022/11/15/how-the-alplm-lost-the-taper-collection/
The Provenance
The stovepipe hat in the Taper collection is accompanied by a 1958 affidavit signed by Clara Waller. Mrs. Waller recounted that the hat had belonged to her late husband, Elbert Waller, who had received it from his father William Waller. According to Clara’s affidavit, William Waller traveled to D.C. and met Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. Discovering they wore the same hat size, the two men exchanged hats. Waller returned home to Illinois and kept Lincoln’s stovepipe hat as a treasured memento until his death in 1891.
In addition to Clara Waller’s signed affidavit, there was also a letter Clara wrote expanding a bit on the story. She stated that William Waller had worked as an agent of sorts during the Civil War, helping to root out anti-Union activities in Illinois. In was due to that course of work that he traveled to D.C. and met Lincoln. During his 2019 research into the hat, Dr. Wheeler could not confirm that William Waller had been employed as either an official spy or civilian informant, but recommended more research into documents held by the National Archives to explore the possibility.
The hat also came with a 1958 letter from John W. Allen, who had served as the curator for the Southern Illinois University museum. Allen wrote that he had heard the same story told by Ms. Waller from her late husband, Elbert, and that he was, “inclined to give it full credence.” These notes are the entire provenance behind the hat.
Is there any indication in Lincoln Day by Day, that William Waller visited Abraham Lincoln in the White House?
And, why would President Lincoln trade hats?