+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln before his Presidency (/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard (/thread-209.html)
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Angela - 05-10-2015 02:24 PM
(05-10-2015 02:14 PM)87books Wrote:Anita Wrote:Hello Peter and welcome! May I ask how you found the forum?Thank you, and of course you may ask. It came highly recommended by a crazy cat lady from Germany, whose exuberance about all things Lincoln works infectious. (In short: Angela told me about it, and I decided to visit.) And I am loving the friendly atmosphere, combined with the search for details and knowledge about Mr. Lincoln. I am sure there will be a lot I can learn from all of you.
(05-10-2015 10:17 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Hi Peter, I second everyone's welcome, and especially Herb's last sentence! Great to have another member from Europe! Where in the NL are you from?Thank you, thank you. *bows humbly*
I live in the northeast corner, in the lovely city of Groningen.
Eva Elisabeth Wrote:As for J. D.'s beard, isn't that called a goatie?I thought about that, and in some pictures (or most) Davis really has what I would call a goatee: facial hair on the chin. In the pictures I chose, Henry (I may call him Henry) and Davis (not Jeff, oh no!) have no hair ON their chin, but only underneath. Which, if one looks for images of goatees, does not pop up very often, if at all.
Crazy Cat Lady (I smell a new user name!) would like to second everything said about the friendly atmosphere!!!
As for the goatee UNDER the chin - is this what is referred to as "neck beard"?
I keep hearing this and can make little sense of it since it is used as a description of facial hair and also as a derogative term.
Could someone explain this?
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - L Verge - 05-10-2015 08:01 PM
I think a neck beard is grown below the chin with the rest of the face shaven? I have occasionally seen some African American men with beards like this actually braided into dreadlocks. Judging by the head gear they were wearing, I thought they might have been Rastiferians (and I know I spelled that wrong).
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Angela - 05-10-2015 11:21 PM
Thanks Laurie! The dreadlocks sound interesting - I don't think I have ever seen that.
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Rogerm - 05-11-2015 12:39 AM
Hallo Peter. Seien Sie herzlich Willkommen. I am sure that you will enjoy this forum of very friendly Lincoln devotees.
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - STS Lincolnite - 05-11-2015 09:45 AM
Well, I can't believe I am posting this (or even admitting I have read from both!!), but the discussion seems to warrant it. Here is a link to a blog called "Badass Civil War Beards."
http://badasscivilwarbeards.tumblr.com/
Because of the apparent success of the blog, a book was also published.
http://www.amazon.com/Badass-Civil-Beards-Marie-Hider/dp/089587637X
Based on the variety present in the photos, there seems to be no social convention and no rhyme nor reason to the facial hair combinations of beard, goatee, mustache, sidburns, neck beard, or whatever. I think it just it boiled down to the personal choice of the individual - and probabaly how forgiving and patient their spouse was!
When giving talks, I have been known to use some of these as "comic relief".
Contrary to what some believe (that Civil War topics have been tapped out), there ARE apparently still corners of the American Civil War which can be explored!
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - L Verge - 05-11-2015 12:25 PM
(05-11-2015 09:45 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: Well, I can't believe I am posting this (or even admitting I have read from both!!), but the discussion seems to warrant it. Here is a link to a blog called "Badass Civil War Beards."
http://badasscivilwarbeards.tumblr.com/
Because of the apparent success of the blog, a book was also published.
http://www.amazon.com/Badass-Civil-Beards-Marie-Hider/dp/089587637X
Based on the variety present in the photos, there seems to be no social convention and no rhyme nor reason to the facial hair combinations of beard, goatee, mustache, sidburns, neck beard, or whatever. I think it just it boiled down to the personal choice of the individual - and probabaly how forgiving and patient their spouse was!
When giving talks, I have been known to use some of these as "comic relief".
Contrary to what some believe (that Civil War topics have been tapped out), there ARE apparently still corners of the American Civil War which can be explored!
My apologies to any beard-sporting gentlemen on the forum, but the thought of kissing any of these men makes me want to go and rub lotion on my face!
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - 87books - 05-11-2015 04:08 PM
Oh my, awesome beards reminds me of an exhibition I saw in basement of the Valentine House in Richmond. They were Civil War generals sporting beards or mustaches, juxtaposed with modern lookalikes.
Apparently it's a club, and even women can join up (which rhymes, so it must be true): http://www.beardleague.org/ "Don’t read too much into our use of the word “beard.” We use it as a simple shorthand for facial hair of all sorts. We’re a social community service organization here to put a new face to the outdated negative stereotypes associated with facial hair."
These are the photos I took. They aren't very clear, but you get the picture.
![[Image: IMG_20150407_145700_zpseynulnbt.jpg]](http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg263/sibieskixiii/IMG_20150407_145700_zpseynulnbt.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_20150407_145648_zps5xk6xqhc.jpg]](http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg263/sibieskixiii/IMG_20150407_145648_zps5xk6xqhc.jpg)
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Eva Elisabeth - 05-12-2015 07:55 AM
(05-10-2015 02:24 PM)Angela Wrote:Thanks for replying, Peter - many cities in the NL are indeed lovely, especially near the sea!(05-10-2015 02:14 PM)87books Wrote:Anita Wrote:Hello Peter and welcome! May I ask how you found the forum?Thank you, and of course you may ask. It came highly recommended by a crazy cat lady from Germany, whose exuberance about all things Lincoln works infectious. (In short: Angela told me about it, and I decided to visit.) And I am loving the friendly atmosphere, combined with the search for details and knowledge about Mr. Lincoln. I am sure there will be a lot I can learn from all of you.
(05-10-2015 10:17 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Hi Peter, I second everyone's welcome, and especially Herb's last sentence! Great to have another member from Europe! Where in the NL are you from?Thank you, thank you. *bows humbly*
I live in the northeast corner, in the lovely city of Groningen.
Eva Elisabeth Wrote:As for J. D.'s beard, isn't that called a goatie?I thought about that, and in some pictures (or most) Davis really has what I would call a goatee: facial hair on the chin. In the pictures I chose, Henry (I may call him Henry) and Davis (not Jeff, oh no!) have no hair ON their chin, but only underneath. Which, if one looks for images of goatees, does not pop up very often, if at all.
Crazy Cat Lady (I smell a new user name!) would like to second everything said about the friendly atmosphere!!!
As for the goatee UNDER the chin - is this what is referred to as "neck beard"?
I keep hearing this and can make little sense of it since it is used as a description of facial hair and also as a derogative term.
Could someone explain this?
Angela, I don't know if these are braided dreads, but maybe look quite similar:
[attachment=1609]
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - loetar44 - 05-12-2015 04:19 PM
Never thought that I ever would write some words about facial hair! So this is an unique moment for me! After reading all the comments I did some research today and found that indeed the majority of men who were U.S. president have been always clean shaven. I think that John Quincy Adams was the first U.S. President to have notable facial hair, with long sideburns. But after him the first with facial hair was (indeed) Abraham Lincoln. I don't think Martin van Buren would qualify Laurie. From Lincoln through the end of William Howard Taft’s term in 1913, every president (excepting just two, Andrew Johnson and William McKinley) sported a significant beard, moustache, or both. Since 1913, and before 1861, not a single president wore a beard or moustache of any kind (except JQA). Lincoln grew a full beard in September 1860.
In answer on Bill's remarks, I also found that facial hair began to enjoy unprecedented popularity in the second half of the 19th century. By the end of this century, men in Europe and the United States wore facial hair almost universally. Side-whiskers gained popularity first, becoming commonplace in Europe by 1810. Moustaches followed close behind, and by the 1830s, beards, too, became increasingly mainstream. After the French revolution, beards soon spread from France to Britain, and then, in the 1850s, to the United States. Is there an explanation? I think yes. The nineteenth century was a period of profound social change in Europe and the United States. It was then that the social roles of men and women changed. Until then, men had laid claim to public places like taverns and city streets, while women were confined the home. But suddenly nineteenth century women increasingly made themselves a vocal and visible part of the places and spaces men had previously claimed as their own. This challenged and troubled many men. Were they now creating a distinct masculine appearance to distinguish themselves from women as a reaction to women’s changing role in American social life? Why I’m wearing a moustache? Where is Freud?
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - L Verge - 05-12-2015 04:26 PM
Some male candidates for the Presidency in 2016 better start growing some facial hair then as a protection against Hillary...
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - loetar44 - 05-12-2015 04:45 PM
(05-12-2015 04:26 PM)L Verge Wrote: Some male candidates for the Presidency in 2016 better start growing some facial hair then as a protection against Hillary...
If a woman can't be easily taken down in a political debate we use to say (here in the Netherlands) “ze heeft haar op haar tanden”, literally translated in English: "she has hair on her teeth”. Is that the female equivalent of a moustache?
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Gene C - 05-12-2015 05:10 PM
As the days go by, Thomas Kearney is looking better and better.
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - HerbS - 05-12-2015 05:34 PM
Didn't Christ have some facial hair?
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - Eva Elisabeth - 05-12-2015 05:53 PM
(05-12-2015 04:45 PM)loetar44 Wrote:Kees, I think you mean if she can NOT easily be taken down, i.e. she's a tough customer?! (There's the same idiom in German, "Haare auf den Zähnen haben".)(05-12-2015 04:26 PM)L Verge Wrote: Some male candidates for the Presidency in 2016 better start growing some facial hair then as a protection against Hillary...
If a woman can be easily taken down in a political debate we use to say (here in the Netherlands) “ze heeft haar op haar tanden”, literally translated in English: "she has hair on her teeth”. Is that the female equivalent of a moustache?
RE: The uniqueness of Lincoln's beard - loetar44 - 05-13-2015 03:59 AM
(05-12-2015 05:53 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:(05-12-2015 04:45 PM)loetar44 Wrote:Kees, I think you mean if she can NOT easily be taken down, i.e. she's a tough customer?! (There's the same idiom in German, "Haare auf den Zähnen haben".)(05-12-2015 04:26 PM)L Verge Wrote: Some male candidates for the Presidency in 2016 better start growing some facial hair then as a protection against Hillary...
If a woman can be easily taken down in a political debate we use to say (here in the Netherlands) “ze heeft haar op haar tanden”, literally translated in English: "she has hair on her teeth”. Is that the female equivalent of a moustache?
Thanks Eva! Indeed I ment "can't". I've changed my initial mail.