Tad Lincoln - Printable Version

Tad Lincoln - Printable Version

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RE: Tad Lincoln - L Verge - 08-03-2012 05:39 PM

There is a complete transcript of the 1867 Surratt trial, and Tad did testify; but it was relative to a strange person encountered in Richmond when Lincoln and Tad entered the city after its evacuation.

I have a feeling that Tad had some emotional issues related to losing his two older brothers/playmates, the age difference between him and Robert (and the fact that Robert entered the military at the time that Tad needed him most), his unstructured (and perhaps verbally abusive) home life, and his being allowed to do what he pleased - and be spoiled by his parents and White House staff.

RE: Tad Lincoln - RJNorton - 08-04-2012 04:08 AM

Karen, here is Tad's testimony from the John Surratt trial in 1867:

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Thomas Lincoln sworn and examined.

By Mr. PIERREPONT:

Q. You are a son of the late President Lincoln?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you with your father down at City Point in March, 1865?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you--in a house or on a steamboat?
A. On a steamboat.
Q. Were you with him during the time he was there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember anybody coming to the steamer and asking to speak to him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did the man say?
A. He said he would like to see the President.
(Question objected to by Mr. Bradley. Objection overruled.)
Q. Did he tell you where he came from?
A. Yes; he said from Springfield.
Q. What further did he say?
A. He said he would like to see the President on particular business.
Q. State the mode of his saying it; whether he urged it.
A. Yes, sir; he wanted to see him "real bad."
Q. State whether he tried more than once to pass in where he was.
A. He tried twice, I believe.
Q. State whether they would allow him to see the President.
A. They would not.
Q. Do you see the man who tried to see the President?
(Prisoner made to stand up)
A. He looked very much like him.
Q. Like the prisoner.
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Bradley desired an exception to be noted to the ruling of the court admitting the testimony of this witness.

The court here took a recess for half an hour.

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Tad was actually also present at the conspiracy trial in 1865 (not as a witness). This information is in Ruth Painter Randall's "Lincoln's Sons." It was reported by a newspaperman on May 18th that Tad was in attendance.

RE: Tad Lincoln - Lindsey - 08-08-2012 08:02 AM

Karen--thanks for the response re: Tad's education.

Laurie--who do you think was verbally abusive to him? Maybe Mary and her outburts?

I believe that John Jr. was in New York when they would have been in Richmond, maybe Tad was mistaken or just said whatever he thought would get John Jr. into trouble?

RE: Tad Lincoln - Laurie Verge - 08-08-2012 09:11 AM

Lindsey,

When I mentioned verbal abuse, I was thinking more in terms of Mary's outbursts in general - maybe not specifically directed at Tad. At a young age, however, such turmoil around you (if it did exist) can certainly affect your behavior.

I have also wondered if that accounted for Robert's more introverted personality.

RE: Tad Lincoln - RJNorton - 09-17-2012 06:18 AM

I believe this is the last photo taken of Tad Lincoln before he passed away in 1871. Does anyone know the identity of the boy on the left?

RE: Tad Lincoln - LincolnMan - 09-17-2012 11:04 AM

Maybe it's just the photograph but his hair looks odd to me. It's like his hair is parted at a strange spot.

RE: Tad Lincoln - RJNorton - 09-17-2012 11:29 AM

I agree. Here's what I have in my files on this photo. It was taken in Iowa in the late spring/early summer of 1871 when Tad was visiting Robert Lincoln's in-laws. He's already quite thin (and maybe already ill) in this photo. But I have nothing on the identity of the other boy in the photo.

RE: Tad Lincoln - Joe Di Cola - 09-17-2012 01:44 PM

(09-17-2012 11:29 AM)RJNorton Wrote: I agree. Here's what I have in my files on this photo. It was taken in Iowa in the late spring/early summer of 1871 when Tad was visiting Robert Lincoln's in-laws. He's already quite thin (and maybe already ill) in this photo. But I have nothing on the identity of the other boy in the photo.

It is a sad photo and hardly bears a resemblance to Tad at all, especially when compared to a photo taken by Julius Ulke in Washington not many months before the photo in question. The very short hair is shocking, but not as much as how emaciated he appears to be. I have never seen the other boy "identified", and am guessing that he was an acquaintance of the Harlans who played with Tad when he visited. Is it possible that he could be the son of the photographer, Leisenring?

(09-17-2012 01:44 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote:
(09-17-2012 11:29 AM)RJNorton Wrote: I agree. Here's what I have in my files on this photo. It was taken in Iowa in the late spring/early summer of 1871 when Tad was visiting Robert Lincoln's in-laws. He's already quite thin (and maybe already ill) in this photo. But I have nothing on the identity of the other boy in the photo.

It is a sad photo and hardly bears a resemblance to Tad at all, especially when compared to a photo taken by Julius Ulke in Washington not many months before the photo in question. The very short hair is shocking, but not as much as how emaciated he appears to be. I have never seen the other boy "identified", and am guessing that he was an acquaintance of the Harlans who played with Tad when he visited. Is it possible that he could be the son of the photographer, Leisenring?

The Lincoln Family Album lists a citation for the page on which the photo of Tad appears: The Harlan-Lincoln Tradition at Iowa Wesleyan College (Mount Pleasant, Iowa: Illinois Wesleyan College, 1977). Does anyone have a copy of that? It might answer the question re the unidentified boy.

RE: Tad Lincoln - Dave Taylor - 09-17-2012 05:04 PM

Don't you hate it when your memory doesn't agree with you? After reading this thread, I thought for sure that I had once seen a picture of Tad Lincoln in his sickbed shortly before his death. However, googling various search terms of the like has come up with nothing. I must be thinking of someone else. Nevertheless, I can very clearly picture a photograph (I'm thinking it was a cabinet card but maybe it was even more modern than that) of teenaged boy slightly sitting up in a bed. I even remeber the caption being something along the lines of, "last photograph of blahblahblah taken at his sickbed in blahblahblah. He died not long after this photograph was taken." There were sheets all around the boy and you could only really see his head. I could have sworn it was Tad, but apparently not. I know this is off topic, but does anyone know any other historical figure's son that passed away at a young age that I could be thinking of. A President's son maybe?

RE: Tad Lincoln - RJNorton - 09-17-2012 05:13 PM

Dave, you may be thinking of Abraham "Jack" Lincoln II, Robert Lincoln's son. He died in London when he was only 16 years old. He died 10 weeks after this photo was taken.

RE: Tad Lincoln - Joe Di Cola - 09-17-2012 06:08 PM

(09-17-2012 05:04 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: Don't you hate it when your memory doesn't agree with you? After reading this thread, I thought for sure that I had once seen a picture of Tad Lincoln in his sickbed shortly before his death. However, googling various search terms of the like has come up with nothing. I must be thinking of someone else. Nevertheless, I can very clearly picture a photograph (I'm thinking it was a cabinet card but maybe it was even more modern than that) of teenaged boy slightly sitting up in a bed. I even remeber the caption being something along the lines of, "last photograph of blahblahblah taken at his sickbed in blahblahblah. He died not long after this photograph was taken." There were sheets all around the boy and you could only really see his head. I could have sworn it was Tad, but apparently not. I know this is off topic, but does anyone know any other historical figure's son that passed away at a young age that I could be thinking of. A President's son maybe?

Franklin Pierce lost a son at a very early age, I believe in a rail accident. JFK lost a son soon after he had been born. FDR lost a son, Franklin (the Rooselvelts named a later-born son Franklin, too). Ike lost a young son to a serious illness (he also said that he never recovered from that loss). Taylor lost a daughter when she was young--she was maried to Jefferson Davis when she died). Garfield lost children to illnesses when the children were young. T.R. lost a son, Quentin, in WW I (he was in his early 20s, I believe). These are a few that I recall.

RE: Tad Lincoln - Dave Taylor - 09-17-2012 07:17 PM

(09-17-2012 05:13 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Dave, you may be thinking of Abraham "Jack" Lincoln II, Robert Lincoln's son. He died in London when he was only 16 years old. He died 10 weeks after this photo was taken.

Roger you're awesome. This is exactly what I was thinking of. Let me guess, that picture is from your site isn't it?

RE: Tad Lincoln - ewtsmail - 09-17-2012 09:11 PM

I have a book, which I cannot locate at the moment called, I believe, "Tad Lincoln's Father," written by the daughter of future president, Taft. Her name was Julia, I believe, and she was a babysitter for the Lincoln boys. She and her two little brothers would come to the White House. The boys would all play together. After Willie died, Mary Lincoln was so distraught that she never again invited the Taft children to come to the White House. She was afraid that the sight of the two Taft boys would increase her heartbreak from the loss of her Willie. Julia tells of an incident many months later, when Mary and Tad are out and they encounter the Taft boys. She describes a scene where Tad sees the Taft boys and breaks out into a screaming emotional fit. I cannot imagine the heartbreak that little Tad must have felt after losing his best friend/brother, Willie. Maybe the sight of the Taft boys brought all the happy memories back and it was too much for him to bear. Has anyone else heard of this story?

RE: Tad Lincoln - Linda Anderson - 09-17-2012 10:02 PM

Dave, I've seen that sad picture of Robert Lincoln's son recently and I can't remember where.

ewtsmail, Thanks for bringing up the story of Tad Lincoln and the Taft brothers from Tad Lincoln's Father.

Julia Taft Bayne's father was Horatio Nelson Taft who was an examiner in the Patent Office. Her half brother was Charles Sabin Taft who attended President Lincoln after he was shot.

This is from a description of Horatio Nelson's Diary:

"In her grief, Mary Todd Lincoln wanted nothing further to do with the Tafts, and Tad Lincoln, immature and highly impressionable, adopted his mother's unseemly behavior in adverse situations. Both hurt and angry, Taft sent his wife and children to Sag Harbor on Long Island to live with his wife's parents. He stayed on in Washington, living in a series of boarding houses and visiting his family every three or four months. Mary Cook Taft had grown up in a seafaring family. She felt at home in such quiet isolation. But the children suffered, especially Julia."

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/tafthtml/essay.html

RE: Tad Lincoln - RJNorton - 09-18-2012 04:04 AM

Mary, I have the book by Julia Taft Bayne, and I found what I think you are asking about. She writes, "When Tad came in and saw me, he threw himself down in the midst of the ladies and kicked and screamed and had to be taken out by the servants."

Dave, actually I don't have that photo on my site, but when I saw your post, I immediately thought of that photo of Robert Lincoln's son. I used The Lincoln Family Album (Neely and Holzer) and scanned it from there. Although that particular photo is in some other books I own, The Lincoln Family Album contains some photos that are hard to find in any other source. Just one example is a winter scene from Hildene that I am quite sure is not in any other book I own.