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+--- Thread: What are you reading now? (/thread-23.html)
RE: What are you reading now? - L Verge - 01-13-2014 09:58 PM
Another reason that some may want to throw darts at the Catholics is because the Jesuit order was very strong in Southern Maryland during the 18th and 19th centuries and were slave holders on farms that the order owned up until the 1840s and 50s. Since most of the conspirators had Maryland backgrounds that tainted the state as a whole. I have never understood what appears to be even a lingering distrust in the Jesuit order - even likening them to the so-called Illuminati.
BTW: The claim that was made about Booth converting to Catholicism shortly before the assassination has never been proven. Supposedly Archbishop Spalding did the conversion, but no one has found any church records to prove it.
RE: What are you reading now? - RJNorton - 01-14-2014 05:22 AM
Ex-priest, Charles Chiniquy, wrote a book titled Fifty Years in the Church of Rome which portrayed the assassination of Lincoln as a Catholic grand conspiracy. Among other things Chiniquy claimed to have met with Lincoln three times in Washington. Chiniquy quotes Lincoln saying things like, "Your friends, the Jesuits, have not yet killed me." He includes other slanderous comments allegedly made by Lincoln against the Catholic Church. Personally I have never seen any independent corroboration that these meetings ever took place. They are not included in Lincoln Day By Day. Unless there is independent corroboration of these meetings, I consider the conversations to be the creation of Charles Chiniquy and not fact.
RE: What are you reading now? - BettyO - 01-14-2014 05:47 AM
It sure doesn't sound like Lincoln!
Burke McCarty's Suppressed Truth About the Lincoln Assassination went into detail I remember, stating that Powell had converted to Catholicism. As the son of a Baptist preacher and therefore strongly indoctrinated within the Baptist church since early childhood - no way did he do that. He did go to Episcopal services with the Branson family (they were Protestant or Methodist Episcopal) but he did not convert. He was friends with ardent Confederate sympathizer, Reverend Stryker, and he did speak with both Father Wiget and Father Walter regarding Mrs. Surratt on the day of the execution and possibly previously. That's all that can be said there.
McCarty's book does bring up some interesting things - but the Catholic Church's involvement in the Lincoln Assassination is a totally wrong and irrelevant assumption. As for JWB having a Catholic metal on him when he died -- don't know much about this other than that it could have been something given to him as a cherished gift. His father, Junius, respected all religion denominations for one thing.
I'm not familiar with Chiniquy's book.
RE: What are you reading now? - L Verge - 01-14-2014 09:44 AM
Just a note on the Catholic medal: I believe that it is briefly mentioned as being put in someone's pocket at Garrett's farm. Did it ever surface again during the trial? Also, Booth was raised and educated in the Episcopal Church; so was I, and they award medals and also give them as presents. Who could distinguish between a Catholic and an Episcopal medal on Booth.
Another thought on the medal: There is mention of Booth donating to a project at the Surratts' church. Could it have been a token of thanks?
Asia said that her brother had supposedly converted, but we can't find records of it. And finally, under the natural order of things, a person who is born into a Catholic family still has to take serious instruction to be confirmed and able to take the sacraments. Supposedly, this conversion of Booth took place in March of 1865, I believe. When did the man have time to study while plotting his deed(s) against Lincoln?
He was also laid to rest at Green Mount Cemetery with an Episcopal priest reading the Episcopal burial service - for which the priest lost his job.
RE: What are you reading now? - Don1946 - 01-14-2014 10:36 AM
(01-14-2014 05:22 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Ex-priest, Charles Chiniquy, wrote a book titled Fifty Years in the Church of Rome which portrayed the assassination of Lincoln as a Catholic grand conspiracy. Among other things Chiniquy claimed to have met with Lincoln three times in Washington. Chiniquy quotes Lincoln saying things like, "Your friends, the Jesuits, have not yet killed me." He includes other slanderous comments allegedly made by Lincoln against the Catholic Church. Personally I have never seen any independent corroboration that these meetings ever took place. They are not included in Lincoln Day By Day. Unless there is independent corroboration of these meetings, I consider the conversations to be the creation of Charles Chiniquy and not fact.
Here is a link to Chiniquy's book: http://books.google.com/books?id=AhU3AAAAMAAJ I agree, he is not an impartial nor reliable scholar, and there is a lot to discredit. But the idea that Pope Pius IX was hostile to the Union and to the ideas of "fanatical egalitarianism" and "extreme democracy" thought to be represented by Lincoln and the Union were not based in mere prejudice toward the Church as religion. The pope was monarch of the Papal States, and important political and religious leader, and he was using his power to rail against his enemies and all things modern. In fairness, the Church did not condone slavery and that was a problem for CSA diplomats in Rome.
But Pius IX played an important and very public role in the summer and fall of 1862 in the scheme organized by Britain and France to intervene in the American Civil War, to mediate peace, and on terms of separation between North and South. That scheme fell apart not only because the Emancipation Proclamation (eventually) undermined southern support abroad, but also because of Garibaldi's heroic March on Rome in late August '62. It threw France and the Great Powers of Europe into turmoil and foiled the plot to end the American war. Garibaldi was regarded as an enemy of the Church and he continued to menace its hold on Rome until 1870 when the Italians stormed the gates and confined the pope to the Vatican.
All of which is to say there was a framework, a prevailing view at the time, that placed the Church in opposition to all things liberal.
I'm interested in Booth's religious, racial, and ideological thinking. I don't believe it is sufficient just to say he was drinking, angry, a frustrated actor, or otherwise psychologically screwed up. All that may be true, but he also was driven by ideas, hatreds, and an agenda for reinvigorating the South.
There were a lot of Booths out there in the end days of the Confederacy and long after. In fact I still meet a few of them now and then in South Carolina! I exaggerate, but only exaggerate.
RE: What are you reading now? - Susan Higginbotham - 01-14-2014 12:36 PM
(01-14-2014 09:44 AM)L Verge Wrote: Just a note on the Catholic medal: I believe that it is briefly mentioned as being put in someone's pocket at Garrett's farm. Did it ever surface again during the trial? Also, Booth was raised and educated in the Episcopal Church; so was I, and they award medals and also give them as presents. Who could distinguish between a Catholic and an Episcopal medal on Booth.
Another thought on the medal: There is mention of Booth donating to a project at the Surratts' church. Could it have been a token of thanks?
Asia said that her brother had supposedly converted, but we can't find records of it. And finally, under the natural order of things, a person who is born into a Catholic family still has to take serious instruction to be confirmed and able to take the sacraments. Supposedly, this conversion of Booth took place in March of 1865, I believe. When did the man have time to study while plotting his deed(s) against Lincoln?
He was also laid to rest at Green Mount Cemetery with an Episcopal priest reading the Episcopal burial service - for which the priest lost his job.
Asia in a letter of May 1865 writes that "Wilkes was of [the Catholic] faith--preferably". Perhaps she meant that he was at heart a Catholic, without having undergone the formal conversion process (which I suppose would have been necessary for him to receive a Catholic burial service)?
I looked in Kaufman's and Swanson's books and couldn't find a mention of the medal. Where does the story originate? (As a novelist, I'm rather taken with the idea of Mary Surratt handing him the alleged medal at her last meeting with him. Isn't she said to have converted some of her friends to Catholicism? Maybe he was one of her projects, and some of their private meetings were about religion rather than plots.)
RE: What are you reading now? - L Verge - 01-14-2014 01:52 PM
"I'm interested in Booth's religious, racial, and ideological thinking. I don't believe it is sufficient just to say he was drinking, angry, a frustrated actor, or otherwise psychologically screwed up. All that may be true, but he also was driven by ideas, hatreds, and an agenda for reinvigorating the South. "
Don, I think that 98% of the serious students of the Lincoln assassination who have worked over the past forty years would agree wholeheartedly with your above statement. James O. Hall used to surmise that it was the Confederacy itself that started the theory that Booth was the "crazy actor" in order to distance themselves from any association with him after the murder.
As for Mary Surratt's ability to convert others to her faith, that is certainly true. So far as we know, however, she failed to convert her husband and her youngest brother. I have had great-grandchildren tell me that Mr. Surratt hated the Catholic Church. Brother Archibald Jenkins is in an unmarked grave at the rear of a Methodist graveyard about three miles from Surratt House.
We cannot prove where Mr. Surratt is buried. We know that she paid $50 for a mahogany coffin, arm bands for the pall bearers, etc., but we don't know where he was buried. The same descendants told me that he was buried on Jenkins' lands that are now under runways at Joint Base Andrews. Some have speculated that he is buried in St. Mary's Catholic Cemetery in nearby Piscataway. The church had a fire, however, and records that include his 1862 death date were destroyed. If he never converted to Catholicism, he would have been buried outside the cemetery gates, however. The burial receipts do not mention his grave site.
I'm going to really throw a ringer in here: I know that Asia reported that Wilkes was of the Catholic faith, but has anyone seen the actual letter to see whether she used Catholic with a capital "C" or "catholic" with a little "c?" With a little "c," my Episcopal priests have told me that it is a general term meaning universal believers in God made man. And that's the extent of my theology for the day.
RE: What are you reading now? - Angela - 01-15-2014 01:25 PM
I’m sure that I am late to the party with this one – but I have just picked up "Honor's Voice" by Douglas L. Wilson and fell in love with it immediately.
It’s a very close look into the years between 1831-1842 and Lincolns personal, professional and political development.
It starts out with a lengthy look at the famous wrestling match between Armstrong and Lincoln and I am completely smitten with the depth of research the author put into this little incident. This is just right up my alley because I love to trace quotes back to their origins.
The second reason I appreciate the book so much is the fact that it makes for a wonderful companion piece to “Herndon’s Informants”. While I constantly refer to it, it is not an easy read for a newbie and more often than not, it gives me more questions than answers. One I find a particular quote, I have to trace down the person who gave it, learn whether or not the person was credible and how and when and under which circumstances the particular information got into this great collection.
To me it feels, like “Honor’s Voice” is a great guide in that field. It carefully argues various cases, gives an in depth look on people involved and quite some background info.
AND it’s a fun read!
RE: What are you reading now? - Joe Di Cola - 01-16-2014 08:17 AM
(01-15-2014 01:25 PM)Angela Wrote: I’m sure that I am late to the party with this one – but I have just picked up "Honor's Voice" by Douglas L. Wilson and fell in love with it immediately.Angela,
It’s a very close look into the years between 1831-1842 and Lincolns personal, professional and political development.
It starts out with a lengthy look at the famous wrestling match between Armstrong and Lincoln and I am completely smitten with the depth of research the author put into this little incident. This is just right up my alley because I love to trace quotes back to their origins.
The second reason I appreciate the book so much is the fact that it makes for a wonderful companion piece to “Herndon’s Informants”. While I constantly refer to it, it is not an easy read for a newbie and more often than not, it gives me more questions than answers. One I find a particular quote, I have to trace down the person who gave it, learn whether or not the person was credible and how and when and under which circumstances the particular information got into this great collection.
To me it feels, like “Honor’s Voice” is a great guide in that field. It carefully argues various cases, gives an in depth look on people involved and quite some background info.
AND it’s a fun read!
After Honor's Voice", I would recommend Herndon's Informants, co-authored by Douglas Wilson.
Joe
RE: What are you reading now? - RJNorton - 01-16-2014 09:10 AM
Angela and Joe, I second both of you. I find it quite the challenge to decipher some of those letters in Herndon's Informants.
RE: What are you reading now? - Susan Higginbotham - 01-17-2014 01:04 PM
I just finished reading Anthony Pitch's "They Have Killed Papa Dead!" Excellent book, except that I was impatient and bought the Kindle version, which I normally don't do for books I use for research, so I will have to get the dead-tree edition as well!
RE: What are you reading now? - L Verge - 01-17-2014 01:20 PM
Another book along the same lines as Tony's book is The Darkest Dawn by Tom Goodrich. It is one of my favorites.
RE: What are you reading now? - RJNorton - 01-17-2014 02:22 PM
(01-17-2014 01:04 PM)boswellbaxter Wrote: I just finished reading Anthony Pitch's "They Have Killed Papa Dead!" Excellent book, except that I was impatient and bought the Kindle version, which I normally don't do for books I use for research, so I will have to get the dead-tree edition as well!
I was looking at Mr. Pitch's book just this morning. In another thread we have been discussing whether or not Laura Keene was really in the State Box cradling the stricken president's head after the shot. Mr. Pitch writes that "William Kent looked on in horror as bloodied brain tissue appeared to ooze from the dying man's wound onto her (Keene's) lap." The source for this is the transcript copy of a letter that is lost. Apparently William Kent wrote a letter to his mother on April 15, 1865, describing what he saw the previous night. Kent family relatives provided a transcript copy of the original letter for Mr. Pitch's use.
RE: What are you reading now? - Tom Bogar - 03-07-2014 11:37 PM
Just finished Robert Wilson's new biography, Mathew Brady: Portraits of a Nation (Bloomsbury, 2013). Concise and interesting, and reveals more intricately than I had realized was the case the nature of the relationship between Brady and Alexander Gardner, as well as the rather inept nature of Brady's bookkeeping. Quick read, well documented, with many photos (naturally). Recommended.
RE: What are you reading now? - BettyO - 03-08-2014 06:42 AM
Thank you, Tom! Just purchased that a couple of weeks ago and it's next on the top of my "reading pile!" It looks facinating....