It’s a question I ponder-as I know you all do. There seems to be so much rudeness and bad behavior in every layer of society today. Is it it at a new level not previously seen? I realize there “is nothing new under the sun.” Having lived through the counterculture environment of the 1960’s, I ask myself: Is what is happening today a stronger more significant set of forces than that? What do you think?

(08-23-2019 06:36 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  It’s a question I ponder-as I know you all do. There seems to be so much rudeness and bad behavior in every layer of society today. Is it it at a new level not previously seen? I realize there “is nothing new under the sun.” Having lived through the counterculture environment of the 1960’s, I ask myself: Is what is happening today a stronger more significant set of forces than that? What do you think?

Personally, having lived through both the 1960s as well as today, I think the level of civility is much worse today - at least in the metropolitan Washington area. From driving manners, to impatience with standing in line, to crude language in everyday conversations and more, I think we are devolving instead of evolving as a civilized society.

I agree with Bill and Laurie. I would be curious to know if this apparent decline in civility is also seen in Europe and elsewhere.

(08-23-2019 10:33 AM)L Verge Wrote:  From driving manners, to impatience with standing in line, to crude language in everyday conversations and more, I think we are devolving instead of evolving as a civilized society.

So much for the theory of evolution.

Christians and Jews aren't perfect, but we try to serve someone who is.
I know several of you out there don't believe this but...History tells you what happens when a society turns away from God.

Was it worse in Lincoln’s day than it is now?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe there ever was a "Golden Age" of civility in America, especially where politics is concerned. Also, whether people today are less civil than in the past is only supported by anecdotal evidence. It's easy to think that when you get flipped off or someone on social media calls you an idiot. I guess it all depends on how you view society in general.

Best
Rob

(08-23-2019 12:41 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I agree with Bill and Laurie. I would be curious to know if this apparent decline in civility is also seen in Europe and elsewhere.

Speaking only from experience with international tourists in D.C., I think that there is a decline globally (but maybe not as pronounced as we see it here). One Asian culture, especially, has amazed me by their rudeness in public areas. It appears that, as wealth and industry has blossomed in certain countries, their politieness has withered on the vine.

This may be the problem in the U.S. as lower classes have achieved financial and social success without the social "training" of how to handle it. Add to that the constant influence of all types of media displaying the poor behavior and even knocking themselves out to create "stories" based on man's rude actions, what do we expect? From an early age, our future generations are exposed to this, and it becomes natural to them.

I, too, think that we live in a time of increased incivility. It is a purely subjective appraisal. The theologian Francis Schaeffer wrote much about this in his books. One book- “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” was most enlightening for me as it traced what we have come to today: disrespect, loss of decency/morality, and decline in value of human life. And, yes, it is worldwide-not just in the USA.

Bill,

I agree that it is a subjective thing. It seems to me that the advent of easier and faster communication makes it appear that more people are less civil. In all the letters I've gone through of noted historians, many were civil to someone's face, but in private they were just as bitter and hateful as people on the internet appear to be today. And as for morality, if it was more moral in the past, how does one explain how many illegitimate family members Abraham Lincoln had? His own mother was illegitimate. If sex outside of marriage is a sin, it appears to me that many people in his family were sinning with impunity.

Hope you and Donna are doing well.

Best
Rob

Good morning Rob:
I have no argument against what you said. Valid points all. My subjective sense is that things are worse, but maybe they are not. When I was young, there was a respect for things that people had- even if they didn’t believe in a higher power. I think this was due to a collective thinking of people in basic moral/ethical precepts- like murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc. Nowadays, that thinking is very much missing. Again, when I was young, people could recite, for instance, the 10 Commandments- even if they were irreligious. And many of them, believed in them to a degree anyway. I don’t think that is true anymore. We seem to live in a “do whatever is right to you” culture. So the moral/ethical framework for our society is gone. I know I am painting with a very broad brush. I hope you are right in what you say. I respect your insight and input very much. Donna and I are doing well. I plan to fully retire in two years or so. I hope you and yours are well also.

It seems that an opinion writer for Fox News, Mike Huckabee, shares your concern Bill, and explains why

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/mike-huc...ility-hate

(08-27-2019 11:48 AM)Gene C Wrote:  It seems that an opinion writer for Fox News, Mike Huckabee, shares your concern Bill, and explains why

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/mike-huc...ility-hate

Which is what made Mike Huckabee a viable candidate for the presidency in 2016, imo. However, I digress...along this same note, several of us were commenting the other day that so many of the millenials that we deal with do not seem to know (or care) about saying "Thank you," "I'm sorry," "It was my fault," etc. Yet, they are certainly ready to accept praise heaped upon them and can't wait for a pay raise whether or not they have earned one.

I also think that, if you want proof of the decline of civility, manners, behavior, or whatever you choose to call it, all you need to do is go into a majority of schools today and watch what's happening (on all levels). If Rodney Dangerfield thought he didn't get any respect, try being a parent, teacher, principal, law enforcement officer, etc. today.

Quote:A society that isn’t rooted in the absolute morality of faith in God and collective belief in the sacred value of human life will always tend toward division and incivility, regardless of who is in political power or who writes our textbooks and newspapers.

Given that brillions of people have lived in this world, and brillions never believed in God or even religion for that matter, to make this kind of statement is nonsense. Belief in God does not automatically lead to being moral. That is one reason I believe Lincoln avoided organized religion.

Best
Rob

   

No idea if you have the same problem ...
mobile phones ... look at that image of a busy Melbourne crossing. Imagine I am walking across this pedestrian crossing. Not a single person walking towards me could give a stuff as to whether they are heading straight into my path. They expect me to take avoiding action.

Then we have the issue of car drivers staring at their mobile phones as they drive down the highway. Total selfishness.

I was on a train and opposite me was a young woman with a toddler. The child was clearly excited to be on the train and continually chatting. The mother? She was too engrossed in her mobile phone to give the child any attention.

I was at a cafe beside the sea in Sydney enjoying a coffee in the sunny open air. At the next table a young couple (maybe 30 years of age) spent 15 minutes on their mobiles ... not talking to each other ... simply fiddling and staring at their mobiles.

I'd like to say what civility means to me.

Being aware of the needs of others (and doing one's best to accommodate them). Being willing to take the time to listen and communicate effectively.

Being able to express a point of view/opinion in a way which is polite , whilst being able to listen and discuss the views of others.
(almost forgot ... says a lot about me) ... acknowledging the positive actions and assistance of others.