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Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
12-04-2016, 12:35 PM
Post: #391
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(12-04-2016 09:51 AM)Gene C Wrote:  Here is an old photo of Ann's resting place in Concord Cemetery.
It's changed so much since this photo was taken, I wonder if this was really taken at the Petersburg Cemetery instead.
(no date for the photo)

http://alplm-cdi.com/chroniclingillinois...show/29017

Here is a chapter from Ed's book "Lincoln Legends, Myth's, Hoax's Legends...", entitled Ann Rutledge's Resting Place. A very good book. which I highly recommend, we have discussed under the Books category

https://books.google.com/books?id=wYmvvE...rs&f=false
Hi, Gene,

No, the photo you included was taken at Oakland.

Joe
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12-04-2016, 04:16 PM
Post: #392
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Thanks Joe. Here are a few more photo's taken over the years from both cemeteries.

http://alplm-cdi.com/chroniclingillinois...ection=488

(click on the individual photos to enlarge)

On the photo of Ann's grave at Oakland, I can't read what is carved into the small stone on the inside of the fence. Anyone know?

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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12-04-2016, 04:23 PM
Post: #393
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Gene, I think it says "Ann Rutledge."

http://digitalcollections.archives.nysed...ect_id/709
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12-05-2016, 01:09 PM
Post: #394
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
It's like a Stephen King novel with Ann being dug up and her arm bone and bits of hair carted off and reburied for personal gain.
Has there ever been discussion to put her all back together at Oakland? Are the any descendants living today?
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12-05-2016, 01:39 PM
Post: #395
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Anita, I don't think there is anything much left to put back together.
That was part of the problem when they tried to mover her remains. Not much remained.

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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12-05-2016, 01:45 PM
Post: #396
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(12-05-2016 01:09 PM)Anita Wrote:  It's like a Stephen King novel with Ann being dug up and her arm bone and bits of hair carted off and reburied for personal gain.
Has there ever been discussion to put her all back together at Oakland? Are the any descendants living today?

By 1860 many family members (brothers and the mother of Ann Rutledge) had moved to Iowa and are buried in Bethel Cemetery, Van Buren County, near the village of Birmingham. One brother, Robert Rutledge was named Provost Marshal, 1st District Iowa, in 1863.
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12-05-2016, 07:14 PM
Post: #397
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Gene,

2nd row, 3rd pic of the sheet with multiple photos of Rutledge graves is NOT at Old Concord, but at Oakland. How did the ALPLM miss that? Also, there were supposedly several eyewitnesses at Ann's exhumation and so there are various accounts of what was found and taken from the Concord grave. Due to the high acid ph of the soil, we should probably rely on the eyewitnesses who said there were no organic remains and that what were moved were pearl buttons from her dress and a few handsful of soil.
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12-07-2016, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2016 03:48 PM by Anita.)
Post: #398
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Thanks, Gene, Joe and Dr. Houmes. Then most likely Ann's remains were well integrated into the ground where she was originally laid to rest. If her descendants living in 1890 were aware of the reburial at Oakland, they were probably told it was a good thing.

Sadly for those who don't know this story, they can end up at Oakland and miss the Concord burial site. Before I joined the forum or knew much about the Lincoln-Rutledge story, I was visiting the area and directed to the Oakland grave as the place where Lincoln wept over Ann. I have lots of photos.
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06-02-2017, 11:21 PM
Post: #399
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(07-19-2012 07:33 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  I have been watching the Open Championship this morning from the Royal Lytham & St. Annes Golf Course, and just as Tiger was lining up a putt, a telegram arrived. It was from a non-member named Wilma Minor. She wanted her opinion known, so I am taking a brief break from the golf. All she said was, "Yes, indeed, this was a powerful and truthful romance. No doubt whatsoever."

Thanks for taking the time to do this, Roger, when you had such important things to do at the time (and, I agree). I also agree with Wilma Minor's opinion and the emphasis in her phrasing. [To one friend (William Greene), [Lincoln] complained that the thought "that the snows and rains fall upon her grave filled him with indescribable grief." -- Herndon's "Life of Lincoln" page 113.]

P.S. How the mighty have fallen since you made this entry in 2012. My brother-in-law is an avid golfer. He was and is also a member of the main country club in my hometown of Decatur, Illinois. At one time, the club was considering sponsoring some sort of exhibition by Tiger at their golf club. The leaders made some inquiries as to cost. I don't recall the numbers specifically, but even for a very well-to-do golf club, the quoted price was exorbitant.

"So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out the truth of anything by history." -- Plutarch
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06-03-2017, 04:13 AM
Post: #400
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(06-02-2017 11:21 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  P.S. How the mighty have fallen since you made this entry in 2012.

I am also curious as to why two tires were flat!
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06-03-2017, 01:23 PM
Post: #401
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(06-03-2017 04:13 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  
(06-02-2017 11:21 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  P.S. How the mighty have fallen since you made this entry in 2012.

I am also curious as to why two tires were flat!

That was my question also, especially after the news was released that his problems were due to pain medications... One tire is believable, but two being flat at the same time he is passed out in the middle of the road, not the shoulder?

As the King of Siam says in the musical The King and I, "'tis a puzzlement.'"
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06-07-2017, 01:58 PM
Post: #402
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
Here is an interesting song "Abraham Lincoln and His First Sweetheart Ann Rutledge"
I looked, but I couldn't find a recording of it.
Probably was not a very popular song.

https://www.lincolncollection.org/collec...item=22567

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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06-11-2017, 10:16 AM
Post: #403
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
We had a very interesting program yesterday at Surratt House with Christy Coleman, CEO of the American Civil War Museum in Richmond presenting a program on Love, Sex, and Consequences during the Civil War. No, it was not a porn program - more of a 19th-century sex education class.

One point that impressed me (which I had never read about) was the fact that many "marriages" of the lower- and middle-classes were not signed, sealed, and delivered with the permission of the church. People formed attachments for a variety of reasons and lived their lives together to suit themselves, not society. Only the upper-class worried about mores, and that was largely due to the concerns of having legal heirs to family lands and fortunes. It brought up in my mind the question of Nancy Hanks's position in life.

The reason I posted this under Ann Rutledge, however, is that we had one elderly gentleman in the audience who wanted to convince everyone that Ann was the true love of Lincoln's life and that Mary Todd was a shrew. Ms. Coleman (and I) made some cogent comments about Mary's traits and personality that would have attracted young Lincoln, but he was having none of it. Christy even made the comment that Lincoln had a deep, emotional personality that would cause him to be attracted to wide varieties of people (male and female) without the result being long and lasting devotion and sexual involvement.
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06-11-2017, 11:01 AM
Post: #404
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
On page 84 of her Mary Lincoln biography Catherine Clinton writes:

“Details about mundane matters and dreams blotted the pages. They reveal just how much the couple cared for one another. Mary conveyed with some relief that she was not suffering from her familiar complaint of migraines. Lincoln wrote back: ‘You are entirely free from headache? That is good – good – considering it is the first spring you have been free from it since we were acquainted.’ He continued with some joviality: ‘I am afraid you will get so well and fat and young as to be wanting to marry again.’ This kind of banter suggests an easy and comfortable relationship, built upon a solid foundation – as in other correspondence Mrs. Lincoln might joke about her ‘next husband’ or wanting to be rich enough to travel, which might not have been mentioned if they were sore points. Lincoln even added playfully: ‘Get weighed and write how much you weigh.’ This confident intimacy shows the depths of the couple’s bond.”

This refers to an exchange of letters when Abraham was alone in Washington in 1848. Mary and the boys had departed.
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06-11-2017, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 03:09 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)
Post: #405
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(06-11-2017 10:16 AM)L Verge Wrote:  One point that impressed me (which I had never read about) was the fact that many "marriages" of the lower- and middle-classes were not signed, sealed, and delivered with the permission of the church.
I would think most lacked the money for a decent wedding?! (Isn't it the same today, quite a lot only get married at the registry office without the additional church wedding, despite the church wedding actually doesn't even officially count by law?!)
(06-11-2017 10:16 AM)L Verge Wrote:  The reason I posted this under Ann Rutledge, however, is that we had one elderly gentleman in the audience who wanted to convince everyone that Ann was the true love of Lincoln's life and that Mary Todd was a shrew.
I would suspect that the gentleman could not have imagined Mary (but Ann) as a spouse for himself. Well, if I had had a true love in my life no other afterwards could come up to I would probably have not married at all. Or do all these critics think Abraham Lincoln suffered from last-minute panic and additionally or similar? Why should he have married Mary "according to" the critics? Weakness of mind and will? Money and Todd name? (I think he once clearly commented on the Todd name.)
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