Bill,

Tripp said the wedding story was false.

Roger, you are likely right that no one will be able to conclusively prove the story. And, like you, I'm leaning toward it not happening, but I've got to wonder why Elizabeth Edwards would have lied about it at that point. Nothing could have been gained unless she had a deep-seated hatred of Lincoln, which seems unlikely.

Best
Rob

I'm not sure what the legal procedures for weddings were in those days, but would they have applied for marriage licenses both times? Would the minister have announced bans in their church? If so, would there be written records in a courthouse or church archive? If you find two licenses being issued and two indications of published bans, that should solve the problem.

Laurie, I cannot answer all your questions, but here is an image of their actual marriage certificate:

My understanding is that there was never a marriage license found, which is evidence that it didn't take place, but if it happened as some allege, it wouldn't be out of the question that such a document could have been destroyed, and courthouse records could have been expunged (although that really begins to border on the conspiratorial).

Best
Rob

Who knows. Remember the story of the suicide poem allegedly written by Lincoln that was published in the Sangamo Journal; Herndon looked for it after Speed mentioned it, but he couldn't find it and thought maybe Lincoln cut it out of the file copy. Some strange things happened in good ol' Springfield. (I have a vague memory of someone discovering this poem about 10 years ago but don't recall its legitimacy.)

Forum members: is the Edwards house in Springfield still standing? Seems like a pretty historical place-Lincoln got married there-Mary died there...

Bill, here is what I have on this. The home Mary died in no longer stands. However, Ninian Edwards' brother, Benjamin Edwards, also had a home in Springfield. This is the Edwards' Place at 700 N. 4th Street which still stands today.

The Edwards' home where Mary was married and died and which no longer stands was located at the south end of the present State House grounds.

Thanks Roger. I will take a look at the house on n. 4th the next time I'm in springfield-which I'm shooting for next year.

(08-16-2012 12:19 AM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  In another thread, we began to discuss whether or not the story of Abraham leaving Mary at the altar is a true story. I think it is a myth that is based on a minor piece of fact. Yes, Miss Todd was left standing alone on her wedding day. However, the "Miss Todd" in question was not Mary, but rather her sister Ann.

From a letter written by Julia Trumbull to her sister-in-law (dated November 18, 1846) we learn that Ann’s summer vacation had included a summer romance. Julia’s tone reflects some disapproval of the groom, or at least disapproval of his common last name.

“You remember Ann Todd of Springfield. She this summer paid a visit to Carrolton where she received acquainted with a gentleman named Smith (an unusual & romantic name is it not?) on her return home she made extensive preparations for a wedding, had a number of party dresses made.”

Julia went into details about the wedding plans and the events of the wedding day. She wrote, “at the appointed time instead of the groom, the intelligence reached her that he was sick.” The groom was not going to arrive that day. Ann, probably embarrassed and furious about being stood up, stated that, “she had learned that Mr. Smith’s health was very delicate & fearing she would be a young widow, she had declined marrying him.” Clark Smith arrived in Springfield the following Sunday determined to marry Ann. The wedding was quickly arranged with “Ann hardly giving her sisters time to dress for the occasion.”

There were no parties of celebrations for Ann and Clark following the ceremony. The left for Carrolton that same night and soon began their family.

Years later when Springfield gossips were repeating the story of Miss Todd being left on her wedding day, it is possible those recording the story confused the two Miss Todds.

The question was asked earlier, did William Herndon deliberately replace "Mary Ann Todd" with "Ann Todd" to hurt or embarrass Mary? Or did he make an honest mistake?

I was looking for information on Ann Todd and found this old thread. I'm interested in seeing Julia Trumbull's letter--do you know which archive holds it?

(09-25-2016 11:58 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  

(08-16-2012 12:19 AM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  In another thread, we began to discuss whether or not the story of Abraham leaving Mary at the altar is a true story. I think it is a myth that is based on a minor piece of fact. Yes, Miss Todd was left standing alone on her wedding day. However, the "Miss Todd" in question was not Mary, but rather her sister Ann.

From a letter written by Julia Trumbull to her sister-in-law (dated November 18, 1846) we learn that Ann’s summer vacation had included a summer romance. Julia’s tone reflects some disapproval of the groom, or at least disapproval of his common last name.

“You remember Ann Todd of Springfield. She this summer paid a visit to Carrolton where she received acquainted with a gentleman named Smith (an unusual & romantic name is it not?) on her return home she made extensive preparations for a wedding, had a number of party dresses made.”

Julia went into details about the wedding plans and the events of the wedding day. She wrote, “at the appointed time instead of the groom, the intelligence reached her that he was sick.” The groom was not going to arrive that day. Ann, probably embarrassed and furious about being stood up, stated that, “she had learned that Mr. Smith’s health was very delicate & fearing she would be a young widow, she had declined marrying him.” Clark Smith arrived in Springfield the following Sunday determined to marry Ann. The wedding was quickly arranged with “Ann hardly giving her sisters time to dress for the occasion.”

There were no parties of celebrations for Ann and Clark following the ceremony. The left for Carrolton that same night and soon began their family.

Years later when Springfield gossips were repeating the story of Miss Todd being left on her wedding day, it is possible those recording the story confused the two Miss Todds.

The question was asked earlier, did William Herndon deliberately replace "Mary Ann Todd" with "Ann Todd" to hurt or embarrass Mary? Or did he make an honest mistake?

I was looking for information on Ann Todd and found this old thread. I'm interested in seeing Julia Trumbull's letter--do you know which archive holds it?

Yes, it is located at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library in Springfield, Illinois.

I have studied Ann Todd for years. She was a very interesting woman. Is there anything particular that you are seeking about her?

(09-26-2016 12:58 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 11:58 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  

(08-16-2012 12:19 AM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  In another thread, we began to discuss whether or not the story of Abraham leaving Mary at the altar is a true story. I think it is a myth that is based on a minor piece of fact. Yes, Miss Todd was left standing alone on her wedding day. However, the "Miss Todd" in question was not Mary, but rather her sister Ann.

From a letter written by Julia Trumbull to her sister-in-law (dated November 18, 1846) we learn that Ann’s summer vacation had included a summer romance. Julia’s tone reflects some disapproval of the groom, or at least disapproval of his common last name.

“You remember Ann Todd of Springfield. She this summer paid a visit to Carrolton where she received acquainted with a gentleman named Smith (an unusual & romantic name is it not?) on her return home she made extensive preparations for a wedding, had a number of party dresses made.”

Julia went into details about the wedding plans and the events of the wedding day. She wrote, “at the appointed time instead of the groom, the intelligence reached her that he was sick.” The groom was not going to arrive that day. Ann, probably embarrassed and furious about being stood up, stated that, “she had learned that Mr. Smith’s health was very delicate & fearing she would be a young widow, she had declined marrying him.” Clark Smith arrived in Springfield the following Sunday determined to marry Ann. The wedding was quickly arranged with “Ann hardly giving her sisters time to dress for the occasion.”

There were no parties of celebrations for Ann and Clark following the ceremony. The left for Carrolton that same night and soon began their family.

Years later when Springfield gossips were repeating the story of Miss Todd being left on her wedding day, it is possible those recording the story confused the two Miss Todds.

The question was asked earlier, did William Herndon deliberately replace "Mary Ann Todd" with "Ann Todd" to hurt or embarrass Mary? Or did he make an honest mistake?

I was looking for information on Ann Todd and found this old thread. I'm interested in seeing Julia Trumbull's letter--do you know which archive holds it?

Yes, it is located at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library in Springfield, Illinois.

I have studied Ann Todd for years. She was a very interesting woman. Is there anything particular that you are seeking about her?

Thanks! I'm not looking for anything in particular--just information in general (surviving letters, information about her marriage, etc.) I gather that she didn't get on well with Mary; am I correct?

(09-26-2016 01:13 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  Thanks! I'm not looking for anything in particular--just information in general (surviving letters, information about her marriage, etc.) I gather that she didn't get on well with Mary; am I correct?

There were definitely times in their lives that they did not get along, yet there were other times that they did. While Mary lay dying, it was Ann who sat beside her throughout the night.

(09-26-2016 03:41 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  There were definitely times in their lives that they did not get along, yet there were other times that they did. While Mary lay dying, it was Ann who sat beside her throughout the night.

Interesting, thanks! Is there an account I could find of this? I am going to Springfield next month and plan to spend some time in the ALPL.

EDITED: I found the letter in question. Thanks for putting me on to its existence. Both of the major biographies of Mary seem to skim past her last days.

http://www.railsplitter.com/sale13/images/3992.jpg

Interesting. I had just noticed that in one of Mary's later letters she referenced Ann in a manner that indicated they were very much reconciled, and I wondered when that had happened. I know Ann's personality and their antipathy gets mention, but little else about her - I will have to look into it more.

A couple questions have been bugging me as a result of all my reading, and this thread provides an opportunity for me to finally get around to posting them. If anyone happens to know the answers, I'll be greatly appreciative! I know much of this information is available in archives, but I'm surprised how hard it is to find it with a thorough Google search.

1) If the Lincoln wedding was so suddenly announced on November 3rd, and then postponed to November 4th so that basic arrangements could be made, how come the ring and marriage license say the November 4th? Was it all just done that last minute? The ring could have been engraved after the fact, but I never see that mentioned.

2) Mary referred to Elizabeth Grimsley as purified through fiery trial - what did she go through? And then there are comments about Mary's sister Frances Wallace really struggling financially - what happened there?

(09-26-2016 11:57 PM)kerry Wrote:  1) If the Lincoln wedding was so suddenly announced on November 3rd, and then postponed to November 4th so that basic arrangements could be made, how come the ring and marriage license say the November 4th? Was it all just done that last minute? The ring could have been engraved after the fact, but I never see that mentioned.

Kerry, I do not believe I've ever read a book that had an exact date for the purchase of the ring. Most books say that the ring was purchased at Chatterton's Jewelry Store. One book I have says that the actual engraving of the ring was done by a Chatterton's employee named Isaac B. Curran. Later Curran set up his own store and was a competitor of Chatterton's.