The antebellum South was a white supremacist culture, and there were plenty of other folk in the north and west that felt the same way. I realize that southerners and others weren't born into families and simply decided one day to be white supremacists because it seemed like a good idea. You don't need to talk down to me. It was a culture and a mindset that our whole country, (other countries and cultures, too) and especially the south, were born into. When I researched my genealogy, I found ancestors in the Va colony. I came across property lists that included slaves, two with the names "Buck" and "Doe". I thought, wow, they animalized those poor people. Of course antebellum whites didn't see themselves as WSs, to them it was just reality and truth of their families and their culture, especially in the early days of slavery.

Did Powell feel the same guilt after beating Annie Ward? I think even he was shocked at the magnitude of his carnage at the Seward home. As for Powell being chivalrous towards Mary, you, of course, know many more historical details than I, but as far as I know, it didn't require chivalry to feel compassion for a woman so obviously suffering, and in large part due to his stupid return to her house and her poor judgement in reaction to it. Now that I would call an error on his part, his brutal attack on Seward and others, was not. He had weeks to consider his actions.

If there was anyone who behaved chivalrously, and who was truly a religious young man, it was dot dot dot Weichmann. He ran every errand she asked of him, accompanied her to church, was a polite and gentile boarder in her home and gave the strongest character testimony for her (and her louse of a son, John) of any witness in the trial. The only time I noticed sarcasm in his book was when he referred to Powell as "that distinguished gentleman".

I'm going no further with the Weichmann issue because it's a deadend at this point, imo. I just have to make a personal comment to Pamela in recognition of her steadfast devotion to Mr. Weichmann. In all my years of working in this field, you are truly the only one that I have met who is a complete fan of the gentleman. Even those who believe in his statements are somewhat wary about his personality in general.

However, this throwing around the term "white supremacy" (that has obviously become a hot topic with many in our culture today) really needs to be used wisely. True students of Lincoln might consider him a white supremacist based on some of his speeches and writings about the inferiority of the blacks -- until 1862, when making emancipation a part of military strategy made him more positive about abolition and keeping the freedmen here in the U.S.

And y'all can forget about attacking my statement on the grounds of my being anti-Lincoln. 'Tain't so. I have quite a bit of Lincoln memorabilia in my home, I was very interested in Lincoln before I got interested in his assassination, and the man himself (as well as President) fascinates me because there are so many sides to him and he is such a pragmatist.

(07-24-2015 02:56 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I'm going no further with the Weichmann issue because it's a deadend at this point, imo. I just have to make a personal comment to Pamela in recognition of her steadfast devotion to Mr. Weichmann. In all my years of working in this field, you are truly the only one that I have met who is a complete fan of the gentleman. Even those who believe in his statements are somewhat wary about his personality in general.

However, this throwing around the term "white supremacy" (that has obviously become a hot topic with many in our culture today) really needs to be used wisely. True students of Lincoln might consider him a white supremacist based on some of his speeches and writings about the inferiority of the blacks -- until 1862, when making emancipation a part of military strategy made him more positive about abolition and keeping the freedmen here in the U.S.

*applauds*

Oh boy, here we go again withe the dots. "...somewhat wary about his personality in general." What is that supposed to mean?

Regarding the names of Buck and Doe. Not all that significant, nothing to unusual about the names.
Clyde Barrow, of Bonnie and Clyde fame, had an older brother named Buck. He was killed in a shoot out in 1933.
Then there's everyone's famous astronaut, Buck Rogers.
Anyone remember Buck Owens of Hee Haw fame?

Doe is a little less common. I can only remember one, and her first name was Jane.
Not much is known about her, she tried to stay out of the lime light and live an anonymous life

(07-24-2015 03:54 PM)Pamela Wrote:  Oh boy, here we go again withe the dots. "...somewhat wary about his personality in general." What is that supposed to mean?

One sentence and I'm done with this topic (dot dot dot). Many people with whom I have dealt (most very well-versed in the history) have referred to Mr. Weichmann in a variety of derogatory statements -- some comical and others crude.

(07-24-2015 04:19 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Regarding the names of Buck and Doe. Not all that significant, nothing to unusual about the names.
Clyde Barrow, of Bonnie and Clyde fame, had an older brother named Buck. He was killed in a shoot out in 1933.
Then there's everyone's famous astronaut, Buck Rogers.
Anyone remember Buck Owens of Hee Haw fame?

Doe is a little less common. I can only remember one, and her first name was Jane.
Not much is known about her, she tried to stay out of the lime light and live an anonymous life

Good points, but the Buck and Doe I saw were either paired or consecutive, it's hard to remember, and that was significant to me.

Laurie, it's funny that the dots just keep coming....

I found this in They Killed Papa Dead by Anthony Pitch: "My luckiest find came in a sprawling warehouse filled with antiques from a consortium of dealers in the quaint Pennsylvania town of New Oxford, ten miles east of Gettysburg. I do not recall why I suddenly looked up after exploring rooms full of aging and rusty exhibits, but the framed page of a broadsheet newspaper caught my eye and I had to buzz the reception desk for help in hauling it down. The glass enclosed front page had columns of print about a credible plot to abduct President Lincoln and carry him off to the Confederate capitol of Richmnond. Until that moment I had dismissed a crucial prosecution witness, Louis Weichmann, as a perjurer, or at best forgetful, for having testified, "I remember seeing in the New York Tribune of March 19, the capture of President Lincoln fully discussed..." I assumed he meant 1865, the year of the assassination, and had scanned many editions of the Tribune on that and surrounding dates, looking for the story, but had always drawn a blank. Only now did I know why it had eluded me. The framed broadsheet happened to be the sme edition Weichmann had referred to in his testimony--the New York Tribune of March 19, 1864. Weichmann, it turned out, had told the truth."

That's a good book! There is so much in it, I must have overlooked that. What page?

(I don't like to write in my books, but I've started using an index card as a bookmark and writing very short notes with page numbers for special or intriguing passages.)

Gene, it's in the Preface (on the third page).

It's also mentioned in Turner's Beware the People Weeping, Chapter 5, pp. 65-76.

Anthony Pitch is a tremendous researcher and author! I feel that he never got enough credit for his work!

Many thanks to Betty for sending a .pdf file of the NY Tribune which mentions the kidnap plot.

CLICK HERE.

Yes, thanks, Betty for that file. I've read most of it and it's fascinating beyond the article about plots to kidnap Lincoln discussed in 1864. Southern belles seen in the streets wearing outdated finery and either barefoot or feet wrapped in rags, reminiscent of Scarlett O'Hara making an ensemble out of Tara's velvet curtains. Wealthy families reduced to living in garrets, almost starving and doing labor that had only been fit for slaves before the war. And that was a year before Lee's surrender! I also enjoyed a story about Lee in which he was sarcastically referred to as "the great patriot and hero", in which he turned down an offer of money ($60,000) to purchase a mansion in Richmond and asked that the money be spent on his soldiers, thereby increasing his popularity with his men and the sesesh population. In reality, he and his wife believed they'd lose the house anyway and would be wiser to wait in case they won the war and were offered more and with union money. The Senate debates about slave soldiers was interesting, too.

(08-27-2015 10:13 AM)Pamela Wrote:  Yes, thanks, Betty for that file. I've read most of it and it's fascinating beyond the article about plots to kidnap Lincoln discussed in 1864. Southern belles seen in the streets wearing outdated finery and either barefoot or feet wrapped in rags, reminiscent of Scarlett O'Hara making an ensemble out of Tara's velvet curtains. Wealthy families reduced to living in garrets, almost starving and doing labor that had only been fit for slaves before the war. And that was a year before Lee's surrender! I also enjoyed a story about Lee in which he was sarcastically referred to as "the great patriot and hero", in which he turned down an offer of money ($60,000) to purchase a mansion in Richmond and asked that the money be spent on his soldiers, thereby increasing his popularity with his men and the sesesh population. In reality, he and his wife believed they'd lose the house anyway and would be wiser to wait in case they won the war and were offered more and with union money. The Senate debates about slave soldiers was interesting, too.

As a Southerner, I feel that I should be offended by most of the above statement, but since I am not a Liberal, I do not think I am allowed to be offended.