This may have been posted previously, but in case anyone is curious who has not before seen Charles Forbes....here he is:

Looks like it was taken right after he had shared a few drinks with Parker

Exactly, Gene!

What a strange looking guy........

I agree with all of your coments about Forbes!

It wouldn't be me who tried to sneak past Forbes. I noticed that one of the accounts has Forbes sitting at the end of a row -- not opposite of the audience, across the aisle with his back to the wall as I have always envisioned him.

Find A Grave contributor Mark Samuels placed this photo of John Frederick Parker on Parker’s memorial page. I always thought that there were no photo’s of Parker existing. Wonder if this is the right John Frederick Parker. Wrote Mark Samuels an email asking to reveal his source.

   

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Account of Dr. George B. Todd: "About 10:25 pm, a man came in and walked slowly along the side on which the 'Pres' box was and I heard a man say, 'There's Booth' and I turned my head to look at him. He was still walking very slow and was near the box door when he stopped, took a card from his pocket, wrote something on it, and gave it to the usher who took it to the box. In a minute the door was opened and he walked in"

(04-18-2015 04:28 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  Find A Grave contributor Mark Samuels placed this photo of John Frederick Parker on Parker’s memorial page. I always thought that there were no photo’s of Parker existing. Wonder if this is the right John Frederick Parker. Wrote Mark Samuels an email asking to reveal his source.

This page has that photo. Many years ago I read (I believe in the Surratt Courier) that there are Parker descendants living in the Washington area today, but they do not have the Parker name and have no pictures or family records of John F. Parker. IMO there are no known photos of John F. Parker.

(04-18-2015 04:28 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  Find A Grave contributor Mark Samuels placed this photo of John Frederick Parker on Parker’s memorial page. I always thought that there were no photo’s of Parker existing. Wonder if this is the right John Frederick Parker. Wrote Mark Samuels an email asking to reveal his source.

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Account of Dr. George B. Todd: "About 10:25 pm, a man came in and walked slowly along the side on which the 'Pres' box was and I heard a man say, 'There's Booth' and I turned my head to look at him. He was still walking very slow and was near the box door when he stopped, took a card from his pocket, wrote something on it, and gave it to the usher who took it to the box. In a minute the door was opened and he walked in"

This question is for Tom Bogar: Did they have ushers at Ford's Theatre?

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(04-18-2015 04:46 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(04-18-2015 04:28 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  Find A Grave contributor Mark Samuels placed this photo of John Frederick Parker on Parker’s memorial page. I always thought that there were no photo’s of Parker existing. Wonder if this is the right John Frederick Parker. Wrote Mark Samuels an email asking to reveal his source.

This page has that photo. Many years ago I read (I believe in the Surratt Courier) that there are Parker descendants living in the Washington area today, but they do not have the Parker name and have no pictures or family records of John F. Parker. IMO there are no known photos of John F. Parker.

Agreed! I feel very secure in saying that, if James O. Hall, John C. Brennan, Michael Kauffman, and Richard Smyth have not found a photo of Mr. Parker, one likely does not exist. I remember that Mr. Hall interviewed a descendant.

(04-18-2015 04:28 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  Find A Grave contributor Mark Samuels placed this photo of John Frederick Parker on Parker’s memorial page. I always thought that there were no photo’s of Parker existing. Wonder if this is the right John Frederick Parker. Wrote Mark Samuels an email asking to reveal his source.

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Account of Dr. George B. Todd: "About 10:25 pm, a man came in and walked slowly along the side on which the 'Pres' box was and I heard a man say, 'There's Booth' and I turned my head to look at him. He was still walking very slow and was near the box door when he stopped, took a card from his pocket, wrote something on it, and gave it to the usher who took it to the box. In a minute the door was opened and he walked in"

I have read the shot was fired at 10:13 but my question is who - in all the pandemonium - would have looked at his or her watch at that moment of the noise to know precisely??

DKEast-I agree with your ideas 100%.

(04-16-2015 04:09 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  The simplest explanation is in my opinion (as I suggested in my earlier post) that Charles Forbes was NOT there. He was NOT important in protecting Lincoln. However, he was MADE important AFTER the assassination, by “assuming” that he was seated in the Dress Circle opposite the outer door of Lincoln’s box.

Kees, I came upon a couple of accounts that may (or may not) involve Forbes. The first one comes from the Surratt Society booklet entitled From War Department Files - Statements Made by the Alleged Lincoln Conspirators Under Examination - 1865.

On. p. 21 John Bingham is questioning David Herold aboard the Montauk on April 27th, and Herold states, "He (Booth) then told me he had murdered the President. He said he walked in the back part of the box with a small Derringer pistol. There was a soldier or officer trying to prevent him from going into the box & the thought struck from to draw a letter from his pocket & show it to the man, which he did. The man let him pass."

I cannot say for sure if the "soldier or officer" were Forbes, but it would seem that it might have been and that Forbes initially denied Booth entry until this letter (whatever it was) was produced.

The second statement comes from Dr. Leale's 1909 address. Leale said, "The play was resumed and my attention was concentrated on the stage until I heard a disturbance at the door of the President's box. With many others I looked in that direction, and saw a man endeavoring to persuade the reluctant usher to admit him. At last he succeeded in gaining an entrance, after which the door was closed and the usher resumed his place."

I do not know for certain, but could the usher have been Forbes? If so, both Herold's and Leale's accounts seem to indicate Forbes may at first have been reluctant to allow Booth to pass. Leale even goes so far as to call it "a disturbance."

Obviously I do not know if the "soldier or officer" in the one story is Forbes or "the usher" in the second account is Forbes, but it seems possible to me.

Roger, there is not the slightest doubt in my mind, that there was “someone” sitting near the outer door of the president’s box, but there is no hard evidence to support that this “someone” was most definitely Charles Forbes.

Booth said to David Herold that “a soldier or officer [was] trying to prevent him from going into the box”. I think that, if true, this man was in uniform. There were a lot of military men in the audience and dress circle. So, in that case, definitely not Forbes.

There are seven extant accounts by Dr. Leale. Five date from 1865, one from 1867, and one as you mention, from 1909. The 1865 accounts are nearly identical copies and does not mention a brief encounter between Booth and a man: “I arrived at Fords Theatre about 8¼ p.m. April 14/65 and procured a seat in the dress circle about 40 feet from the Presidents Box, The play was then progressing and in a few minutes I saw the President, Mrs Lincoln, Major Rathbone and Miss Harris enter; while proceeding to the Box they were seen by the audience who cheered which was reciprocated by the President and Mrs Lincoln by a smile and bow. The party was preceded by an attendant who after opening the door of the box and closing it after they had all entered, took a seat nearby for himself. The theatre was well filled and the play of “Our American Cousin” progressed very pleasantly until about half past ten, when the report of a pistol was distinctly heard and about a minute after a man of low stature with black hair and eyes was seen leaping to the stage beneath, holding in his hand a drawn dagger.”

The 1867 account also does not mention a brief encounter between Booth and a man. The 1909 account is substantially different, because Leale added details that are not present in his 1860s accounts. However, it’s forty-four years after the assassination ! That is not immediate and indisputably tarnished by the passage of time (and maybe influenced by stories of others). Even in this account Leale does not speak about Forbes but about an usher, most definitely an employee of Ford's. You think that it seems possible that the man was Forbes, but to me it just underlines that the man was not Forbes.

Was the man Parker or Forbes?Has there been a coverup about who was at the door all these years?These are all issues that must be addressed!

The Lincoln assassination is full of material that cannot always be 100% verified. I think Forbes' presence, or lack of it, is one of these cases - we just have to (in our own minds) go by what we see as the weight of the evidence. And IMO the weight of the evidence indicates Forbes was the man seated outside the passageway to the State Box. I am not 100% certain of this, but that is my belief. I do believe there was some sort of "communication" between Booth and Forbes prior to Booth's entry, but I am not sure of the exact nature of this.

One of the best discussions I have ever seen of the Forbes' situation is in John Fazio's book titled Decapitating the Union: Jefferson Davis, Judah Benjamin and the Plot to Assassinate Lincoln. Kees, if you have that book, please see pp. 174-183 which covers the Forbes situation in detail with more information/accounts than I think I have seen in any other book. I commend Mr. Fazio for all the research he did on this matter.

(04-22-2015 01:06 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  The Lincoln assassination is full of material that cannot always be 100% verified. I think Forbes' presence, or lack of it, is one of these cases - we just have to (in our own minds) go by what we see as the weight of the evidence. And IMO the weight of the evidence indicates Forbes was the man seated outside the passageway to the State Box. I am not 100% certain of this, but that is my belief. I do believe there was some sort of "communication" between Booth and Forbes prior to Booth's entry, but I am not sure of the exact nature of this.

One of the best discussions I have ever seen of the Forbes' situation is in John Fazio's book titled Decapitating the Union: Jefferson Davis, Judah Benjamin and the Plot to Assassinate Lincoln. Kees, if you have that book, please see pp. 174-183 which covers the Forbes situation in detail with more information/accounts than I think I have seen in any other book. I commend Mr. Fazio for all the research he did on this matter.

Roger:

I greatly appreciate your commendation.

Permit me to contribute to the discussion, because, as you say, it is a subject in which I have a keen interest and one, therefore, that I have read a great deal about.

That Forbes was sitting outside the outer door that led to the passageway is beyond dispute. The evidence for it is more than clear and convincing; it is conclusive.
1. All three scenarios (including Forbes's), as to how the presidential party made its way to the theatre, have Forbes in the carriage.
2. Upon arrival, Forbes assisted them to the sidewalk and then, with Parker and Buckingham, escorted them into the lobby (Good, 9,10). With Parker and the usher James O'Brien, he then escorted them up to their box (Reck 83, Bryan 168, Forbes's Affidavit). He and Parker then took seats outside the outer door (Holzer 105, 106). Though there is a little doubt about this, subsequent facts remove it.
3. Simon P. Hanscom, Editor of the National Republican, wrote in his newspaper the next day that Forbes "was always in the habit of attending the President and Mrs. Lincoln at the theater".
4. It was reported that Forbes visited the presidential party occasionally to see if anyone needed anything. (Briggs)
5. Hanscom delivered an envelope to the President from the White House. He left it with Forbes. (Reck) He wrote in his newspaper the following day that the only person at the door to the box was Forbes. Steers, Bryan and Brooks, among others, all have Forbes in the dress circle in a seat closest to the president's box (Section A, Seat 300).

The more interesting question, because unlike this one it allows for scenarios about which reasonable minds can differ, is why Forbes allowed Booth to pass. I have some thoughts on that too, which I will share with you in another reply inasmuch as it is 4:15 and, like Hindenberg, I need my rest. Let us hope that the consequences of my needing rest are not as dire as those which followed the tired old soldier's need.

John