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My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
12-01-2013, 12:48 PM
Post: #31
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Good educators are the best judges of what works. However, much of today's curriculum choices have been thrown into think tanks - people who often have no practical experience. Reading and espousing educational theory and trying to make it the "law of the land" doesn't mean that those responsible for preaching these theories can cut it in the actual classroom. You need to walk the walk before you talk the talk. Sitting behind a computer and searching for scholarly words to throw out to make one appear all-knowing doesn't cut it.
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Good Educators are the best judges, and normally, very dedicated to their area of expertise. This is precisely why it was very aggravating to know that they only provided "input", in developing the common core standards. IMHO, key educators, should have been appointed to develop the infrastructure and key components, of the common core standards.

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12-01-2013, 05:01 PM
Post: #32
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
You are so right, Karin, and from the grassroots up. There are many fine teachers in elementary and secondary schools that are much better qualified to develop curriculum than many PhDs teaching on the college level. Those college professors often forget the basics of their subject matter as well as human growth and development patterns as they climb their ladders to tenure and publishing.

I had some great professors in college, but I am especially reminded of one history professor who had thirteen doctorate degrees. When he walked into commencement exercises with his hoods and his stripes, he looked like a strutting peacock. In the classroom, however, his "teaching" technique was to write everything that he was going to test you on on the blackboard each day. You were to copy that verbatim - right down to the commas and the periods. Oops, by the time that was done, there was no time for discussion! So, sorry...

And yes, we were required to spit it out via our pen tips word for word and comma for comma when test days came along. Tell me that's education.
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12-02-2013, 11:37 AM
Post: #33
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Just when I thought I was having a down day, I opened up the mail and things perked up. I received a letter from a longtime member of the Surratt Society from North Carolina with a Life Membership form and payment to enroll his grandson in the Surratt Society. I have watched this child grow up because he and his grandfather have attended every Surratt conference since Jon-Robert was about ten years old. His closing paragraph, however, made my day:

We appreciate the kindness you have shown to Jon-Robert over the years … many members of the Society have been so encouraging of him. He has really enjoyed every conference and tour we have attended. They have inspired him to do more reading. The Society first sparked then nurtured his interest in history. He took the SAT Subject Test in U.S. History and scored a perfect 800. I am sure his interest in history will continue when he goes to college and for the rest of his life. Our thanks to you and the Society for the important role you have played in this.

Another good example that education does not have to be limited to the classroom.
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12-02-2013, 01:55 PM
Post: #34
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Laurie, Thanks for sharing this. What a wonderful gift grandfather gave to Jon-Robert. And kudos to the Surratt Society for passing it forward. Keep this letter handy for those down days.
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12-02-2013, 10:35 PM
Post: #35
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Awesome!
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12-04-2013, 12:59 PM
Post: #36
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
I don't normally care for the "Huffington Post", but sorry to say, this article makes a lot of sense
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randy-turn...lp00000592

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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12-04-2013, 06:39 PM
Post: #37
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
When Lincoln was on his way to the National Cemetery at Gettysburg, an old gentleman told him that his ony son fell on Little Round Top at Gettysburg, and he was going to look at the spot.

Mr. Lincoln replied:

"You have been called on to make a terrible sacrifice for the Union, and a visit to that spot, I fear, will open your wounds afresh.

"But, oh, my dear sir, if we had reached the end of such sacrifices, and had nothing left for us to do but to place garlands on the graves of those who have already fallen, we could give thanks even amidst our tears; but when I think of the sacrifices of life yet to be offered, and the hearts and homes yet to be made desolate, before this dreadful war is over, my heart is like lead within me, and I feel at times like hiding in deep darkness."

--E. W. Andrews in "Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln" at pages 510-11.

And, yet, President Abraham Lincoln carried on to save democracy for the world!

Question: Did this chance encounter on the train to Gettysburg lead President Lincoln to add the profound last paragraph of the Gettysburg Address?

"It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated, here, to the unfinished work that they have thus far so nobly carried on. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us; that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion; that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

[Plutarch: "So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out truth of anything by history."]

"So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out the truth of anything by history." -- Plutarch
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12-04-2013, 11:31 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 12:22 AM by irshgrl500.)
Post: #38
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"

(12-04-2013 06:39 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  When Lincoln was on his way to the National Cemetery at Gettysburg, an old gentleman told him that his ony son fell on Little Round Top at Gettysburg, and he was going to look at the spot.

Mr. Lincoln replied:

"You have been called on to make a terrible sacrifice for the Union, and a visit to that spot, I fear, will open your wounds afresh.

"But, oh, my dear sir, if we had reached the end of such sacrifices, and had nothing left for us to do but to place garlands on the graves of those who have already fallen, we could give thanks even amidst our tears; but when I think of the sacrifices of life yet to be offered, and the hearts and homes yet to be made desolate, before this dreadful war is over, my heart is like lead within me, and I feel at times like hiding in deep darkness."

--E. W. Andrews in "Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln" at pages 510-11.

And, yet, President Abraham Lincoln carried on to save democracy for the world!

Question: Did this chance encounter on the train to Gettysburg lead President Lincoln to add the profound last paragraph of the Gettysburg Address?

"It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated, here, to the unfinished work that they have thus far so nobly carried on. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us; that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion; that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

[Plutarch: "So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out truth of anything by history."]

I know I am jumping in here without the least bit to back me up on this very issue, that is, as far as a sourced reference is concerned. As far as opinions go, I think the experience might have had an impact on President Lincoln. He was a man who LOVED his literary experiences, so much, as a teenager, he'd recite and rewrite words from the few books he had read, over and over. He realized too, at a young age, he was a FANTASTIC orator, as he loved to speak or give speeches, as a teen, while working outside. He was such a distraction, capturing an audience from neighboring farms, and others near by, his father annoyed, told him, he was not allowed to give talks or speeches, when laboring for money, and his distractions were not appreciated (at least, not by Thomas). Though being sensitive, and aware of people's emotions, was something that he did possess, and had an effect on him. So, I would bet that the experience had an impact on him, to the point, of including a change in his address.
We'll actually likely never know, as President Lincoln shared very little of his own thoughts and actions, with others, (except that he was "working" on the address, after receiving the invitation from Wills), and that is why, (I believe), there has been so much research, and analysis on the address, itself. There is quite a bit, in fact a lot, which is shrouded in mystery behind the address, and events around it.
David, you seem to be highly adept at research, if someone here doesn't know the answer, (with the members of this group, I'd be surprised if one did not.) and there is an actual answer, ie. something on record, you could certainly find it.

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12-05-2013, 01:43 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 01:45 PM by Gene C.)
Post: #39
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Going way back and beginning at post #9 ....

Hate to say I told you so, (who am I kidding, I relish in it) but......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/05/tea...s-to-read/

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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12-05-2013, 01:54 PM
Post: #40
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Consider the source.

Best
Rob

Abraham Lincoln in the only man, dead or alive, with whom I could have spent five years without one hour of boredom.
--Ida M. Tarbell

I want the respect of intelligent men, but I will choose for myself the intelligent.
--Carl Sandburg
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12-05-2013, 02:15 PM
Post: #41
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
(12-05-2013 01:54 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  Consider the source.

Best
Rob

Thank you! Big Grin

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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12-05-2013, 02:24 PM
Post: #42
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Just being my predictable self. Big Grin

Best
Rob

Abraham Lincoln in the only man, dead or alive, with whom I could have spent five years without one hour of boredom.
--Ida M. Tarbell

I want the respect of intelligent men, but I will choose for myself the intelligent.
--Carl Sandburg
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12-05-2013, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 07:36 PM by L Verge.)
Post: #43
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
Ironically, those same types of comments are heard here at the museum from teachers in the metropolitan D.C. area; and my mentoring teacher daughter hears and has the same comments. You aren't going to pin the blame on FoxNews on this one. There are even some liberals who are concerned about the future of American education -- and I used to be one of them. Now I'm a centrist and concerned even more.

I didn't like No Child Left Behind either. Good teachers who can cut it in the classroom know how to include all levels of learning abilities. Unfortunately, good teachers are becoming harder to find because the school systems and the pay scales are not commensurate with the qualities expected in good teachers - so they leave the system.

To me (and this will cause a flare-up, I know), problems began when the p.c. crowd decided that children of varying abilities should not be separated according to those abilities. We used to call it the track system where high abilities were in one class, average students in another, and remedials and special needs in another. That became viewed as discrimination, and a class of 35 would contain all levels. The "experts" (many of whom never entered a classroom) kept saying that the high achievers would inspire the slow achievers to do better. Teachers contended that the opposite would happen. The latter is certainly what happened in my school system.
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12-05-2013, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 08:39 PM by irshgrl500.)
Post: #44
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
(12-05-2013 01:43 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Going way back and beginning at post #9 ....

Hate to say I told you so, (who am I kidding, I relish in it) but......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/05/tea...s-to-read/

The scary news is test scores, prior to developing the common code standards, test scores and class curriculum were much worse, particularly in rural areas of states, and inner city areas, which were scarce in resources, and lacking in funds, and vastly over crowded, respectively. The common core and No Child Left Behind was developed to address some of the vast oversights, and needs that these types of areas or situations were facing. Often, in inner city areas, where Commercial Property, in taxes brought next to nothing to the schools and 70-90% of the residents are living below the poverty line, you just don't have the funds to run a mini daycare, let alone an entire school district, which can't afford to hire teachers, even at the minimal pay. And what sort of teacher wants to go to this inner city area, risk their life, for a minimal amount of pay? Or, after the Common Core Standards were developed, LA Unified offered their substitutes a $25 (a day-WOW) stipend in pay for accepting assignments in higher risk areas. Well, this does not mean that it is any easier to help the kids in the high risk areas.
When I substituted in Math, grades 9-12, in say East Los Angeles, the Algebra I students were in grades 10-12, and were at the same level of understanding that the grade 8 students were in a much better part of Los Angeles. The Common Core mandated a set of standards, which could be met, on a standard level, according to age or grade level.
Also, this article is not realistic, as the teachers who were asked for their input, dictated their answers, as if the only curriculum were available, were the common core standards, otherwise their hands were tied. THAT'S IDIOTIC! The Common Core is a minimal requirement, and adjustments can always be made to help those students meet the minimal requirements. Seriously, if these teachers have so little innovation and such a myopic approach to the class curriculum, they need to find another profession.

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12-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Post: #45
RE: My "150th Anniversary of the Gettysburg Address"
I don't think we are going to agree, except perhaps that more than one approach needs to be taken, because there are different reasons why a school or class is not reaching desired objectives. From poor teachers to poor home environment, from hungry kids to ones that are over weight, no one single approach will solve the problems.

I personally think the parents are frequently a bigger part of the problem than the children. Maybe we need to focus on that.

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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