How does this compare with the photos that Heath found? Wouldn't it be nice after all these years to all of a sudden find at least two more views of the bridge? Of course, the original one gives a better perspective from the fugitives' standpoint. And both Heath's and this one make that bridge seem a lot longer than the one I remember from childhood (which would have been the second or third one).

In the first photo, the Gardner or Brady one, is that the Washington side? I imagined a small guard shack, but maybe they used that house.

(04-23-2013 03:16 PM)J. Beckert Wrote:  In the first photo, the Gardner or Brady one, is that the Washington side? I imagined a small guard shack, but maybe they used that house.

I believe its the MD side.

Thank you, John.

(04-23-2013 03:02 PM)L Verge Wrote:  How does this compare with the photos that Heath found?

After giving it a good deal of thought, I believe the photo I posted; this one:
   
is indeed the "right" way (and not reversed as I hopefully hypothesized.) The main reason that I thought/hoped that the image was mistakenly mirrored was the absence of any land behind the Arsenal where East Potomac Park "should" have been. Laurie suggested that the park wasn't in existence during the 1860's, but the map I was looking at appeared to show it. However, that map:
   
while old, is not "that old" (it doesn't have a date) as it shows the Tidal Basin. I found this map that pre-dates the Tidal Basin and it does not show East Potomac Park, but rather only a very slim part of land on the west side of the Washington Canal.
   

So....it appears that "my" photo does indeed show the Long Bridge in the background and not the Naval Yard Bridge.

---

My theory is even more shot down via this map, which I understand to be the first one ever of DC, printed in 1792. As you can see, the area where the Arsenal is located most certainly does not have any land to the east of it.
   

The report today that more ricine was found on mail coming through Joint Base Bolling triggered some history related to what we have been discussing here. The Washington Arsenal used to be a colonial point of land called Turkey Buzzard Point (we can only guess why). After the capital was created in that area, its name was changed to Young's Point (then landowner of the point) and finally to Greenleaf's Point (for the land speculator who started to develop the area).

Across the Eastern Branch from Greenleaf's Point/Washington Arsenal was another colonial strip of land known as Giesboro (Giesborough) Point - the name taken from the Youngs' Giesborough Manor plantation. At the time of the Civil War, Mr. Young was D.C.'s largest slaveholder, and when D.C. slaves were emancipated 151 years ago this year, he was compensated with $17,771.85. His land also became the U.S. Cavalry Depot for the capital region and as many as 200,000 horses passed through this depot during the war - many of them used to conquer nearby Virginia environs.

There was an adjacent Camp Stoneman that housed troopers awaiting remounts and also one of the defense fortifications of the capital, Fort Carroll. The Government Hospital for the Insane (Saint Elizabeth's) looked down on all of this from the area that we now know as Anacostia. I believe that I am correct that Col. Ellsworth's Fire Zouaves were camped at Stoneman when they set forth to take the city of Alexandria. I have often wondered if Ellsworth spent his last night in camp or in the White House since he was good friends with Mr. & Mrs. Lincoln and the boys.

Anyhow, the purpose of this harangue is to offer more photos of Civil War Washington around the area of Giesboro Point - several of which might tie in with Heath's photos. In fact, I believe that an almost identical photo but taken from a vantage point of an incline is near the bottom of this set of photos: http://www.vintag.es/2012/10/photos-of-w...1865.html.

BTW: I first got interested in Giesboro many years ago when I read an old journal or set of letters that described Mrs. Surratt going to the plantation home there for Catholic services during the time that the family was living in what is now the Oxon Hill area of Maryland (before 1852). Sometime between 1840 and 1850, Mrs. Surratt and another woman rode horseback around the area to solicit funds to construct a Catholic church in the Oxon Hill area. St. Ignatius still stands (second church) and her mother is buried in its cemetery.

I later found a statement (I think from one of the Surratt slaves at Surrattsville) indicating that horses escaped from the Cavalry Depot and made it as far as Surrattsville. Mrs. Surratt saw to the horses being rounded up and stabled until the U.S. Army could claim them.

I forgot to mention that Joint Base Bolling, which now houses the Defense Intelligence Analysis Center, is on Giesboro Point - hence what triggered this history lesson.

(04-23-2013 02:52 PM)John E. Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 02:32 PM)L Verge Wrote:  John,

That's the only photo that I know of showing the Navy Yard Bridge. However, if you start with Heath's first posting, he has interesting photos of what may be the Arsenal with the bridge behind it. I'm a little doubtful because that bridge looks way too long. Also, it comes from Kimmel's Mr. Lincoln's Washington.

Have you ever seen any other photo of the Navy Yard one?

Nope, same here. That's the only one I've ever seen.

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Here you go:

John, That is a great picture!! Is it from the Naval Historical Society? I had tried to get someone to return emails, but kept hitting brick walls. I like the monitors in the river.

Can you place where the 7th Street warf is on this picture?

Great work.

(04-22-2013 04:30 PM)Rhatkinson Wrote:  I would love to hear the opinion of the resident experts on whether this picture of the Washington Arsenal could (I stress could) show the Naval Yard Bridge in the background. On initial inspection, you would think not as the picture seems to be taken looking west (and thus towards the "Long Bridge".) However, there are some problems with that which make me think this picture is actually reversed. Check out the original:


and now look at it reversed/mirrored:


One main reason that I believe the mirrored shot may be accurate is that the East Potomac Park, which is separated from the arsenal by the Washington Channel (and was back in 1865 as well)

is not pictured. Rather, all you see is open water behind the arsenal. Check out the current view from East Potomac Park and see what you think. (I wish I could get a view from higher.)

What fab photos.

Jim,

If you will start at my post #14, it will give you the exact link to where I found this photo. John was kind enough to enlarge it for me to get more details. It's amazing how much more pops up when you google 11th Street Bridge instead of Navy Yard Bridge - they are one in the same, as D.C. natives know.

(04-23-2013 06:29 PM)L Verge Wrote:  There was an adjacent Camp Stoneman that housed troopers awaiting remounts and also one of the defense fortifications of the capital, Fort Carroll. The Government Hospital for the Insane (Saint Elizabeth's) looked down on all of this from the area that we now know as Anacostia. I believe that I am correct that Col. Ellsworth's Fire Zouaves were camped at Stoneman when they set forth to take the city of Alexandria. I have often wondered if Ellsworth spent his last night in camp or in the White House since he was good friends with Mr. & Mrs. Lincoln and the boys.

Laurie, do you know if Camp Stoneman was ever called Camp Lincoln? I have Ruth Painter Randall's bio of Ellsworth, and if I am reading it correctly, Ellsworth's last night was spent at Camp Lincoln. This was adjacent to Saint Elizabeth's Hospital which was established in 1855 as the Government Hospital for the Insane.

(04-23-2013 09:01 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Jim,

If you will start at my post #14, it will give you the exact link to where I found this photo. John was kind enough to enlarge it for me to get more details. It's amazing how much more pops up when you google 11th Street Bridge instead of Navy Yard Bridge - they are one in the same, as D.C. natives know.

Thanks Laurie: I have gone through their image collection on line and missed that one. Today the Navy Yard is very different than it was in 1865. If I remember, only a handful of buildings date to 1865. Most of the yard was rebuilt in the 1880s and 1890s.

The leg of Col. Ulrich Dahlgren was suppose to be entombed behind a plaque in one of the walls. When they tore down the wall, they were ready to document and film the removal of Dahlgrens leg. Iit wasn't there. I believe the plaque is now attached to the historic parking garage.

The Navy Yard has a very nice museum, but very difficult to get on base. Be prepare to show proper state issued ID, automobile registration and proof of insurance.

Roger - I can't find any reference to a Camp Lincoln, but of course there was a Fort Lincoln; but it was/is on the other side of Washington (Northeast vs. Southeast). Parts of it still exist within Fort Lincoln Cemetery. It would have been too far from Alexandria, I would think, because Ellsworth's men were sent into that city to occupy it as soon as Virginia announced secession. Camp Stoneman would have been much closer to Alexandria and also to Saint Elizabeth's.

Also, Ellsworth was killed in May, and Ft. Lincoln was not established until the summer and "dedicated" in September of 1861. I also found a hitch about Stoneman and the cavalry depot. The depot didn't come along until later when it was moved from Camp Davis in Virginia. Too much edumacation is getting me confused.

Jim - The Surratt House has taken several bus tours onto the Navy Yard, and it is very interesting. We were in good with one of their volunteers who gave wonderful tours. I can't remember his name, but I'm sure he has retired by now. During the 1970-90 period, I think half of Prince George's County worked at either the Navy Yard or the Naval Research Center.

(04-24-2013 04:33 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  [Laurie, do you know if Camp Stoneman was ever called Camp Lincoln? I have Ruth Painter Randall's bio of Ellsworth, and if I am reading it correctly, Ellsworth's last night was spent at Camp Lincoln. This was adjacent to Saint Elizabeth's Hospital which was established in 1855 as the Government Hospital for the Insane.

Saint Elizabeth's Hospital

Any trace of St Elizabeth's Hospital left?

Oh yes. Much of it remains, including the building that Roger posted here. Its population has dwindled to practically nothing, however, since we changed our laws as to who will be considered mental patients in need of hospital care.

The hospital campus is now shared with the U.S. Homeland Security conglomerate. Kinda ironic when you think about it. I've been concerned about what will happen to the small cemetery on the grounds with graves dating back to the Civil War. Some of the burials were of USCT soldiers.

(04-24-2013 09:48 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Oh yes. Much of it remains, including the building that Roger posted here. Its population has dwindled to practically nothing, however, since we changed our laws as to who will be considered mental patients in need of hospital care.

The hospital campus is now shared with the U.S. Homeland Security conglomerate. Kinda ironic when you think about it. I've been concerned about what will happen to the small cemetery on the grounds with graves dating back to the Civil War. Some of the burials were of USCT soldiers.

Laurie, Is John Hinckley still at St. E's?