I can't but help remembering-wasn't it Powell that used the skull of a Union soldier for an ash tray? What are we to conclude about this mysterious man? On one hand, he tries to kill Seward but on the other hand-didn't he verbalize to authorities that Mary Surratt was innocent? How polite and gentle he could be. Was he really a sociopath-charming but potentially deadly?

(07-23-2012 11:56 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I can't but help remembering-wasn't it Powell that used the skull of a Union soldier for an ash tray? What are we to conclude about this mysterious man? On one hand, he tries to kill Seward but on the other hand-didn't he verbalize to authorities that Mary Surratt was innocent? How polite and gentle he could be. Was he really a sociopath-charming but potentially deadly?

That old story about Powell using the skull of a Union soldier for an ash tray was made up for affect by Doster in his argument. Powell didn't smoke for one thing; chewed, yes, but smoked no! Jim Bishop picked up on Doster's quote in his novel, The Day Lincoln was Shot, followed by Van Doren Stern in his novel, The Man Who Killed Lincoln. Just WHY historians/scholars down through the ages continue to quote fiction is beyond me. It's one of my pet peeves. Still these old canards remain, unfortunately.

Young Powell was apparently working for the Confederate Secret Service - or so he told Dr. Abram Dunn Gillette the night before he died. He had been recruited from the 43rd Battalion, Mosby's Rangers; handpicked BY Mosby to participate in an "expedition into Maryland" to kidnap the President. Mosby more than likely received his orders from Judah P. Benjamin. Five other men were recruited along with Powell but at the last moment, they backed out of the project. Powell carried through. This circa Hall, Tidwell, Gaddy in Come Retribution. I have researched this for years along with these three gentleman and much of what they claim has a definite ring of truth in it regarding the Confederate Secret Service. General Bradley C. Johnson and General William H. Payne in correspondence after the war reiterated this. Powell boarded with Payne's family while serving with Mosby and used their name as his "alias."

Young Powell thought that he was following orders the night of the assassination. Orders from Richmond, or whoever, he never specified. He simply told Gillette that he was a soldier and "following his orders." Powell, once he got inside Seward's house, panicked. He had never fought in "close quarters" before and apparently never hand to hand. He was used to fighting in the open where he could apply the Mosby tactic of "skedaddling" if he got into trouble. Powell never considered that he'd be confronting screaming women and men coming at him from all directions within the house. Powell never touched the women - this from himself as well as from Fanny Seward and the other women present in the Seward House.

Powell furthermore told Gillette that as soon as he leaped into the saddle of his horse, he was horrified at what he had done; i.e. that he saw his crime as a crime ONLY and that he was utterly remorseful and miserable. He was contrite and wept constantly in his cell over what he had done and expressed regret to both Mr. Seward and Fred Seward. He was horrified at what his parents would think and hoped that they would think he had fallen on the battlefield. In one instance he begged a detective, "Please don't tell my mama what I've done! It'll kill her!"

Powell's guards claimed that the young man was truthful, and although oblivious to harshness and cruelty, was touched by kindness when extended towards him. They further reiterated that he was soft spoken, gentle and kind; appreciative of any thing done for him. These same adjectives were used to describe Powell BEFORE the assault. He was highly esteemed by all who knew him before. His hangman, Captain (later Colonel) Christian Rath was deeply impressed by the young man, claiming that he was a true, brave soldier. He and Powell became good friends while Powell was incarcerated and when the prisoners were given exercise in the court yard of the Prison, he and Powell played games of Quoits (a ring toss game similar to horse shoes).

Regarding Mrs. Surratt, Powell was utterly miserable. He considered the fact that his return to her house on the night of April 17 condemned her. Partially true. The kid told Dr. Gillette on the night before his death, "Doctor, she is a woman - and men do NOT declare war on women! Mrs. Surratt is innocent and had nothing to do with this!"

In over 40 years of research on young Powell, I can find nothing to indicate a psychopath in any way. He was simply a very young man who got mixed up in things that were way over his head. He still, even after the surrender, considered himself a Confederate soldier "doing his duty." Older, more powerful men used this boy to further their ends in a misguided attempt to save the Confederacy. As he perceived himself a soldier, Powell obeyed.

Betty, thank you for your outstanding analysis. Nobody, absolutely nobody, knows this man like you do! I do have a question. I am a believer in Mary Surratt's complicity as presented in Kate Larson's terrific book. Do you think JWB might have shielded Lewis Powell from the true degree of her involvement? If so, this might explain why Powell may have sincerely believed in her innocence prior to the execution.

(07-24-2012 05:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Betty, thank you for your outstanding analysis. Nobody, absolutely nobody, knows this man like you do! I do have a question. I am a believer in Mary Surratt's complicity as presented in Kate Larson's terrific book. Do you think JWB might have shielded Lewis Powell from the true degree of her involvement? If so, this might explain why Powell may have sincerely believed in her innocence prior to the execution.

Hey, Roger!

I, too am a definite supporter of Kate Larson's viewpoint of Mary Surratt. The woman was far more involved in the complicity than believed. At one instance (and I have the article in my files; I'll have to find it), while staying at the Surratt House, Powell made a statement in Mrs Surratt's parlor, in her presence, in which the kidnap venture could be inferred. Surratt was home at the time and was there. He beckoned Powell out into the hallway and reprimanded him, saying that his mother should NOT know how much they were involved and told the other youth to "never mention the kidnap again in my mother's presence." Powell apologized and told Surratt that he wouldn't want "my mother to know what I was involved in, either."

If this report is true, then Powell knew that Mrs. Surratt was deeply implicated in the plot. Whether or not, this is so, Powell's confirmations of her innocence in the death cell could be simply pure chivalry on young Powell's part....

I read Powell's defense of Mary not as a man declaring her innocence, but rather a man defending a woman because he was being chivalrous. Reading what he said - that she might have known something was going on, but perhaps not completely - doesn't sound like he was saying she was innocent. He apparently said, too, that men shouldn't make war on women. His arrival at her home that Monday night after the assassination says a lot about what he thought she knew and that she would help him.

I also believe that Powell was mercilessly pressured into making his statement about Mary. In spite of his ability to actions the night of the murder, and as Betty reminds us, he was still a very young man. He probably looked at Mrs. Surratt as a mother first, co- conspirator second.

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Sorry, IPad typing malfunction. I meant to type "in spite of his actions the night of....."

Betty: Thank you for taking the time out to give such a detailed answer. Yes, it was Jim Bishop's book The Day Lincoln Was Shot where I had first heard about Powell and the skull. I had forgotten over the years where I had heard it. If the account of Powell if true as you have laid it out, he becomes much more of a sympathetic character for me. Thanks for your great input!

(07-24-2012 07:37 AM)KLarson Wrote:  I read Powell's defense of Mary not as a man declaring her innocence, but rather a man defending a woman because he was being chivalrous. Reading what he said - that she might have known something was going on, but perhaps not completely - doesn't sound like he was saying she was innocent. He apparently said, too, that men shouldn't make war on women. His arrival at her home that Monday night after the assassination says a lot about what he thought she knew and that she would help him.

I also believe that Powell was mercilessly pressured into making his statement about Mary. In spite of his ability to actions the night of the murder, and as Betty reminds us, he was still a very young man. He probably looked at Mrs. Surratt as a mother first, co- conspirator second.

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Sorry, IPad typing malfunction. I meant to type "in spite of his actions the night of....."

Bingo, Kate! You've hit the nail right on the head!

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(07-24-2012 07:47 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Betty: Thank you for taking the time out to give such a detailed answer. Yes, it was Jim Bishop's book The Day Lincoln Was Shot where I had first heard about Powell and the skull. I had forgotten over the years where I had heard it. If the account of Powell if true as you have laid it out, he becomes much more of a sympathetic character for me. Thanks for your great input!

No problem, Bill! I love "talking" about Powell. Bishop's book is a good one - but it's fiction. Apparently Bishop picked up on part of Doster's argument where he reiterates that "he [Powell] was one of a group of soldiers who made ash trays out of the skulls of Union dead...." I think Doster was talking about Confederate soldiers in general - a rather derogatory statement (although I've never heard of any one making an ash tray out of a skull - short of possibly Ed Gein!) HA!

Betty: Bishop's book was one of my early exposures to the assassination story. I loved (and still do) the format of the book as it moves almost hour by hour. As I became more studied on the history of the assassination, I saw where Bishop made some goofs-although at the moment I cant recall any specific ones. I'm glad you addressed the skull story.

(07-24-2012 09:00 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Betty: Bishop's book was one of my early exposures to the assassination story. I loved (and still do) the format of the book as it moves almost hour by hour. As I became more studied on the history of the assassination, I saw where Bishop made some goofs-although at the moment I cant recall any specific ones. I'm glad you addressed the skull story.

Bishop's book is a good one. I still have an affinity for Theodore Roscoe's old Web of Conspiracy (I swallowed that whole thing in less than a week - all 1000+ pages). However I disagree with a lot of his assumptions, I still regard that one affectionately because it was one of the first I ever read -- likewise I love Oldroyd's old book - and Risvold's edited Weichmann's True History because his was the very FIRST I ever read aside from Twenty Days as a teenager! I first "met" Mr. Powell in Twenty Days and seriously read about him in Risvold's book....

Betty: Was glancing through the book Lincoln's Avengers by Elizabeth D. Leonard-and there was reference to the skull ash tray again: "...he was described as keeping among his belongings the skull of a Union soldier, which he occasionally used as an ashtray." I don't see in the book where she obtained that information. While looking through the Notes section of the book-she does list you several times as a source for other material on Lew.

(08-18-2012 08:29 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Betty: Was glancing through the book Lincoln's Avengers by Elizabeth D. Leonard-and there was reference to the skull ash tray again: "...he was described as keeping among his belongings the skull of a Union soldier, which he occasionally used as an ashtray." I don't see in the book where she obtained that information. While looking through the Notes section of the book-she does list you several times as a source for other material on Lew.

Oooohhh -- I've gone over this several times! This was taken from Doster's argument in that he was describing Powell as "one of those (meaning Confederates) who made ashtrays from the skulls of Union Soldiers...."

This was pure speculation on Doster's part in his argument. Powell didn't even smoke, as far as I know. Chewed, yes (as did most soldiers - and the bane of his dental situation!) Jim Bishop picked up on this in his NOVEL, The Day Lincoln was Shot (and yes it was a novel with created dialogue, etc.) and it has been reprinted ever since as "gospel" about Powell.

As far as I know, Powell never did any such thing. He had stated to Gillette the night before he died that the act he committed upon Seward, and for which he was extremely contrite, was the "first time he had ever knowingly ever shed human blood before." ("Last Days of Payne" - NY World, 04/03/1892)

So.....I definitely believe that the entire story was made up and perpetuated on his hapless client by Colonel William E. Doster....

Jim Garrett asked me to post this image he sent. It's a pass made out to Mr. J.W. McConnell and five ladies. It is thought they were there to show support for Mrs. Surratt. Possibly, the ladies were more likely there to see the mysterious "Payne." This is probably the most interesting pass, the content is great!

Jim, if I didn't say things correctly, feel free to add to this!

Betty: I didn't mean for you to go over again what you had said previously on that issue-I was just commenting that there the darn story was again-in a fairly new book! Betty, I know you must have super powers-why not just kill the story

(08-19-2012 08:52 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Betty: I didn't mean for you to go over again what you had said previously on that issue-I was just commenting that there the darn story was again-in a fairly new book! Betty, I know you must have super powers-why not just kill the story

Oh no, Bill!! I wasn't being nasty!! HA!

I was just saying that I've heard this old story sooo many times....it seems that it NEVER goes to rest. I will tell you one thing, Bill; attempting to "change history" even when the facts are there is VERY challenging - but fun all the least!

Thanks for the interest, as always, m'dear!!

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(08-19-2012 08:14 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Jim Garrett asked me to post this image he sent. It's a pass made out to Mr. J.W. McConnell and five ladies. It is thought they were there to show support for Mrs. Surratt. Possibly, the ladies were more likely there to see the mysterious "Payne." This is probably the most interesting pass, the content is great!

Jim, if I didn't say things correctly, feel free to add to this!

Roger -

That "pass" graphic is so very, very small.....is there a way to enlarge it? It's really unreadable. That is very, very interesting! More than likely Powell's "groupies"!! HA!

Hi Betty. I told Jim the same thing you just mentioned. I thought maybe it was just my eyes. I did try to enlarge it on my computer and it became really blurry. Does anyone on the forum have the know-how to enlarge it and still keep it clear?