Honor's Voice

[Gene C]

Has anyone read this?

The description on Amazon looked pretty good

http://www.amazon.com/Honors-Voice-Trans...rd_title_0

[Joe Di Cola]

(05-14-2013 11:35 AM)Gene C Wrote:  Has anyone read this?

The description on Amazon looked pretty good

http://www.amazon.com/Honors-Voice-Trans...rd_title_0

Gene,

I have always felt that Lincoln owed his greatness in a large measure to the people who befriended him earlier in his life--chief among those were the people of New Salem. I think this is one of the best books ever written on how people, events, etc. in Lincoln's early life shaped him. I highly recommend it to you.

Joe

[LincolnMan]

I agree with Joe. I read the book 2 years ago and felt it one of the best about that period in Lincoln's life.

[Rob Wick]

Agree with both Joe and Bill. It's well worth the time.

Best
Rob

[Liz Rosenthal]

I'll add my vote for Honor's Voice, too! It's near the top of my list of favorite Lincoln books! Douglas Wilson is a wonderful writer with a fine, analytical mind. He shows in Honor's Voice how to cut through a lot of the b.s. and solve some of the little but interesting questions of Lincoln's early years.

Incidentally, I also agree with Wilson's disagreement with Harold Holzer about Lincoln's extemporaneous speaking ability. I think the debate is really about Lincoln's ability to "think on his feet." Holzer believes, and when David Herbert Donald was alive, Donald believed, that Lincoln was only good at speaking from prepared texts or texts he'd memorized. Donald went as far as to say that there was no evidence that Lincoln was an effective extemporaneous speaker at trial, and then claimed that, although, in modern times, lawyers do have to be able to talk about any number of things that might come up at trial or in an appellate matter, it was different back on the frontier. Except that, in all the reading I've done about Lincoln as a lawyer, a political speech-maker and as a president dealing with all sorts of difficult people, I've gotten the opposite impression. And, orally, lawyers were pretty much expected to do the same things then as now.

The reason - it appears - that Donald insisted that Lincoln couldn't think on his feet was that he made what some scholars believe to have been inane speeches during the train trip to Washington in February '61. However, I think Lincoln conveyed what he needed to convey to the local audiences he met along the way. And as we all know, he refused to specify what he would do after his inauguration, insisting that his statements and speeches prior to receiving the Republican nomination for president spoke for themselves. So he endeavored not to say anything that could be construed or misconstrued as new.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Douglas Wilson disagrees with Holzer and Donald, and I'm pleased about that! (I highly recommend Wilson's book, Lincoln's Sword, which is about Lincoln as wordsmith. Definitely read this one over Ronald A. White's similarly-themed book, The Eloquent President, which is completely forgettable.)

[Mike B.]

Read it...Read it right now!!!

---

(05-14-2013 06:54 PM)Liz Rosenthal Wrote:  I'll add my vote for Honor's Voice, too! It's near the top of my list of favorite Lincoln books! Douglas Wilson is a wonderful writer with a fine, analytical mind. He shows in Honor's Voice how to cut through a lot of the b.s. and solve some of the little but interesting questions of Lincoln's early years.

Incidentally, I also agree with Wilson's disagreement with Harold Holzer about Lincoln's extemporaneous speaking ability. I think the debate is really about Lincoln's ability to "think on his feet." Holzer believes, and when David Herbert Donald was alive, Donald believed, that Lincoln was only good at speaking from prepared texts or texts he'd memorized. Donald went as far as to say that there was no evidence that Lincoln was an effective extemporaneous speaker at trial, and then claimed that, although, in modern times, lawyers do have to be able to talk about any number of things that might come up at trial or in an appellate matter, it was different back on the frontier. Except that, in all the reading I've done about Lincoln as a lawyer, a political speech-maker and as a president dealing with all sorts of difficult people, I've gotten the opposite impression. And, orally, lawyers were pretty much expected to do the same things then as now.

The reason - it appears - that Donald insisted that Lincoln couldn't think on his feet was that he made what some scholars believe to have been inane speeches during the train trip to Washington in February '61. However, I think Lincoln conveyed what he needed to convey to the local audiences he met along the way. And as we all know, he refused to specify what he would do after his inauguration, insisting that his statements and speeches prior to receiving the Republican nomination for president spoke for themselves. So he endeavored not to say anything that could be construed or misconstrued as new.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Douglas Wilson disagrees with Holzer and Donald, and I'm pleased about that! (I highly recommend Wilson's book, Lincoln's Sword, which is about Lincoln as wordsmith. Definitely read this one over Ronald A. White's similarly-themed book, The Eloquent President, which is completely forgettable.)

I think Wilson has the far better argument on this. Lincoln was elected Whig floor leader as a young man, a job that requires a lot of banter.

He was known to be able to pitch in to opponents, sometimes harshly on the fly, (the "skinning of Thomas for example.)
Stephen Douglas said on learning of Lincoln's nomination for Senate, "He is the strong man of his party, full of wit, facts, dates, etc. and with his droll ways and dry wit, the best stump speaker in the West." (or something very much like that).

Remember Lincoln gave a big speech in court that was very effective. The only note he wrote was "skin ----."
The idea that Lincoln who drew people to him by his personality was somehow a stammering fool without a text in front of him is just downright absurd.

[RJNorton]

I agree with everyone else. Where else are you going to find 30+ pages on the wrestling match with Jack Armstrong.

[Gene C]

Interesting book. Covers the time of 1831 -1842. Compares eyewitness accounts of different periods and experiences of Lincoln' life in New Salem up to the time he gets married. Big differences in how people remembered things. Douglas Wilson examines and discusses this. He explains and reasons how these early experiences changed and formed Lincoln's character. Wilson also looks at some of the short comings in Lincoln's behavior. He does spend some time on Lincoln's awkwardness around women and his courting relationship with Marry Todd. Not sure I agree with his reasoning about their relationship, but it was interesting.

Lots of footnotes referencing "Herndon's Informants" and other writings of Herndon. All in all, a pretty good book. Reasonably priced too

[RJNorton]

Gene, I agree this is an interesting book. Douglas Wilson goes into detail on some topics, such as Lincoln's apparent religious skepticism while at New Salem, that many authors tend to gloss over.

[Liz Rosenthal]

Honor's Voice is, as I think I've already stated, one of my favorite Lincoln books. The writing is superb, and Wilson's analysis a pleasure to read and absorb. If only more of today's Lincoln authors had his writing ability... well, we'd be all the more fortunate!

[Gene C]

Another good book for a bargain price on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Young-Eagle-Rise-...oung+eagle

$3 new and $ 0.01 for a very good used copy.
Buy now and save it for Christmas.
Or go ahead and read it now, and then wrap it up for Christmas.

[ELCore]

Excellent book.

[RJNorton]

(05-14-2013 06:54 PM)Liz Rosenthal Wrote:  Incidentally, I also agree with Wilson's disagreement with Harold Holzer about Lincoln's extemporaneous speaking ability. I think the debate is really about Lincoln's ability to "think on his feet." Holzer believes, and when David Herbert Donald was alive, Donald believed, that Lincoln was only good at speaking from prepared texts or texts he'd memorized.

I am also with Douglas Wilson on this one. IMO, perhaps the best example of Lincoln's ability to give an impromptu speech was his Farewell Address given February 11, 1861, as he departed Springfield for the last time. This speech was given from the railroad car prior to departure, and the words were written down after the speech, not before.

In truth, this is one of my favorites among all Lincoln's speeches.

My friends, no one, not in my situation, can appreciate my feeling of sadness at this parting. To this place and the kindness of these people, I owe everything. Here I have lived a quarter of a century, and have passed from a young to an old man. Here my children have been born, and one is buried. I now leave, not knowing when, or whether ever, I may return, with a task before me greater than that which rested upon Washington. Without the assistance of that Divine Being who ever attended him, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail. Trusting in Him who can go with me, and remain with you, and be everywhere for good, let us confidently hope that all will yet be well. To His care commending you, as I hope in your prayers you will commend me, I bid you an affectionate farewell.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(08-19-2016 03:58 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 06:54 PM)Liz Rosenthal Wrote:  Incidentally, I also agree with Wilson's disagreement with Harold Holzer about Lincoln's extemporaneous speaking ability. I think the debate is really about Lincoln's ability to "think on his feet." Holzer believes, and when David Herbert Donald was alive, Donald believed, that Lincoln was only good at speaking from prepared texts or texts he'd memorized.

I am also with Douglas Wilson on this one. IMO, perhaps the best example of Lincoln's ability to give an impromptu speech was his Farewell Address given February 11, 1861, as he departed Springfield for the last time. This speech was given from the railroad car prior to departure, and the words were written down after the speech, not before.

In truth, this is one of my favorites among all Lincoln's speeches.

My friends, no one, not in my situation, can appreciate my feeling of sadness at this parting. To this place and the kindness of these people, I owe everything. Here I have lived a quarter of a century, and have passed from a young to an old man. Here my children have been born, and one is buried. I now leave, not knowing when, or whether ever, I may return, with a task before me greater than that which rested upon Washington. Without the assistance of that Divine Being who ever attended him, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail. Trusting in Him who can go with me, and remain with you, and be everywhere for good, let us confidently hope that all will yet be well. To His care commending you, as I hope in your prayers you will commend me, I bid you an affectionate farewell.

Mine, too, Roger (and the book is a must-have)!