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05-02-2013, 05:36 PM

One question that I am uneducated as to the answer of is why John Surratt, a key member of the conspirator group, was absent from DC on 4/14/1865?

He was very involved in the March kidnapping plot, so I wonder why he bailed out in April? Did he have a falling out with Booth or simply was sent by the CSA on a mission and HAD to go?

Jim Garrett · 05-02-2013, 05:50 PM

(05-02-2013 05:36 PM)Rhatkinson Wrote: One question that I am uneducated as to the answer of is why John Surratt, a key member of the conspirator group, was absent from DC on 4/14/1865?

He was very involved in the March kidnapping plot, so I wonder why he bailed out in April? Did he have a falling out with Booth or simply was sent by the CSA on a mission and HAD to go?

The story goes he was sent to Elmira NY to reconoiter the POW Camp there. This was suppose to be at the behest of my favorite Secretary of State, Judah P. This is off the top of my head. Anyone please correct Me

L Verge · 05-02-2013, 06:00 PM

At that point, to the best of our knowledge, Surratt had been placed under Gen. Edwin Lee to check out the POW camp at Elmira, but more importantly, to assist in getting Confederate assets into Canada and out of Union hands after the fall of Richmond. Released Confederate prisoners could create chaos and assist in the transfer of assets. More importantly, however, the area of upstate New York (HerbS's home territory) was known for having a large contingent of Copperheads -- some of which, I have always suspected, would be delighted to see Abraham Lincoln disposed of.

By the time that Booth found the perfect time to strike (probably decided upon after hearing Lincoln speak on April 11), his connections to Richmond were on the run and the strongest man of his team was doing duty in the North for the Confederacy. As I have said before, Booth became a loose cannon.

05-02-2013, 06:36 PM

I can only imagine the panic and shock in Surratt's mind when he heard of the assassination. It sounds as though he truly had no idea that Booth altered the plan to kill rather than capture.

On a semi-related topic, Laurie's speech that she gave me about Mrs. Surratt was very good. I had not read of the "Lent visit" she made to Herdon House to see Powell. That is very curious and I wish we had more information about it.

L Verge · 05-02-2013, 06:49 PM

So do I, Heath, because it was a totally unacceptable social faux pas for a woman of good standing and alone to visit a man's room. Just dropping in to say hi? I think not...

John Stanton · 05-02-2013, 07:43 PM

Booth and Surratt parted company Mar. 17 +/-. after the abduction failed. On April 3, Surratt was in Richmond and was ordered to take Slater to Montreal, arv. 8 April +/-. E.G. Lee sent him to Elmira and Surratt was there on April 14. IM(humble)O. Surratt did not know anything about Booth's plans. Surratt never, ever, saw Booth again -after Mar 17.
PS. Does anyone want to debate E.G.Lee's reasons for being in Canada?

05-02-2013, 08:51 PM

(05-02-2013 07:43 PM)John Stanton Wrote: PS. Does anyone want to debate E.G.Lee's reasons for being in Canada?

I'll bite. Why was Lee there?

Heath

(05-02-2013 07:43 PM)John Stanton Wrote: Surratt never, ever, saw Booth again -after Mar 17.

While that seems true, what do you think of the Surratt letter that Booth read on April 10th? It must have been some communication as Mrs. S went to Surrattsville the next day with Weichmann to speak to Lloyd.

Gene C · 05-02-2013, 10:02 PM

I'm still not 100% convinced Surratt was in Elmira when President Lincoln was assassinated.

RJNorton · 05-03-2013, 06:40 AM

(05-02-2013 10:02 PM)Gene C Wrote: I'm still not 100% convinced Surratt was in Elmira when President Lincoln was assassinated.

Although the majority of my assassination views are "conventional," I do believe there is enough evidence John Surratt was in Washington on April 14 that it should not be dismissed out-of-hand.

I think Booth's thinking changed with the Harney mission's failure. This set in motion a whole series of events. Mary Surratt traveled to Surrattsville on April 11 and told John Lloyd the "shooting irons" would be needed soon. Also, on April 11, Lincoln spoke from the White House. Booth, Herold, and Powell were in the audience. Among other things, Lincoln discussed possible new rights for certain blacks. He suggested conferring voting rights "on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers." Booth was enraged.

On April 13 Herold was sent into the country to inform key people something was about to happen. Dr. Mudd may have been one of these folks Herold visited.

Also on April 13 Lewis Powell was sent to scout the Seward residence. We have pretty good evidence that this occurred.

I think it's possible Booth looked at what he had available (Herold, Powell, and Atzerodt), and decided he needed John Surratt to assist. He contacted Surratt and told him to come to Washington. Booth may also have told Mary that John was coming.

I believe a grand total of 13 eyewitnesses placed John Surratt in Washington on April 14. One eyewitness said he saw Surratt in front of Ford's Theatre prior to the assassination. Another person, a barber, said he cut Surratt's hair in Washington on the morning of April 14. And there were many others.

In his July 6th statement, George Atzerodt wrote, "Booth told me that Surratt was in the Herndon House on the night of the murder, the 14th of April, we were not all together at the Herndon House. Booth told me that Surratt was to help at the box, that he expected others in the box. I saw Surratt a few moments ago."

On Wednesday, April 12, Mary Surratt told Richard Smoot that John would be in Washington on April 14th.

Additionally, the ledger pages for the Brainard House in Elmira for the dates "John Harrison" (John Surratt) was allegedly there are mysteriously missing.

I just think there's enough there to give John Surratt's whereabouts on April 14th a second look.

Jim Garrett · 05-03-2013, 06:48 AM

(05-03-2013 06:40 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(05-02-2013 10:02 PM)Gene C Wrote: I'm still not 100% convinced Surratt was in Elmira when President Lincoln was assassinated.

Although the majority of my assassination views are "conventional," I do believe there is enough evidence John Surratt was in Washington on April 14 that it should not be dismissed out-of-hand.

I think Booth's thinking changed with the Harney mission's failure. This set in motion a whole series of events. Mary Surratt traveled to Surrattsville on April 11 and told John Lloyd the "shooting irons" would be needed soon. Also, on April 11, Lincoln spoke from the White House. Booth, Herold, and Powell were in the audience. Among other things, Lincoln discussed possible new rights for certain blacks. He suggested conferring voting rights "on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers." Booth was enraged.

On April 13 Herold was sent into the country to inform key people something was about to happen. Dr. Mudd may have been one of these folks Herold visited.

Also on April 13 Lewis Powell was sent to scout the Seward residence. We have pretty good evidence that this occurred.

I think it's possible Booth looked at what he had available (Herold, Powell, and Atzerodt), and decided he needed John Surratt to assist. He contacted Surratt and told him to come to Washington. Booth may also have told Mary that John was coming.

I believe a grand total of 13 eyewitnesses placed John Surratt in Washington on April 14. One eyewitness said he saw Surratt in front of Ford's Theatre prior to the assassination. Another person, a barber, said he cut Surratt's hair in Washington on the morning of April 14. And there were many others.

In his July 6th statement, George Atzerodt wrote, "Booth told me that Surratt was in the Herndon House on the night of the murder, the 14th of April, we were not all together at the Herndon House. Booth told me that Surratt was to help at the box, that he expected others in the box. I saw Surratt a few moments ago."

On Wednesday, April 12, Mary Surratt told Richard Smoot that John would be in Washington on April 14th.

Additionally, the ledger pages for the Brainard House in Elmira for the dates "John Harrison" (John Surratt) was allegedly there are mysteriously missing.

I just think there's enough there to give John Surratt's whereabouts on April 14th a second look.

Maybe look for John Surratt in the catacombs under St. Patrick's on 10th St. What irony, being secreted just 1 block away from the scene of the crime, right under the very noses of investigators. Why was Father Walter never questioned? Maybe it was those Catholics!

Bill Richter · 05-03-2013, 07:27 AM

Those interested in John Surratt and the idea of him being in DC on April 14 ought to read my Confederate freedom fighter available at the Surratt bookstore

05-03-2013, 08:41 AM

If John Surratt was indeed in DC on the night of the assassination, why wouldn't he have assisted with the plot? Surely if his mother was involved (she took Booth's package to Lloyd on the 14th) then John would not have simply backed out at the last minute.

Laurie Verge · 05-03-2013, 08:57 AM

As my friends on this forum know, I am convinced that Surratt was indeed in upstate New York on April 14 and had been in that vicinity for at least a few days. In addition to Bill's historical novel on Surratt, I would suggest reading The Last Lincoln Conspirator by Andrew Jampoler. You will learn lots more about 19th-century ships than you ever wanted to know (Naval Institute Press is the publisher), but it is a very well-documented study of John's adventures.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 05-03-2013 09:10 AM by Gene C.)

(05-03-2013 08:41 AM)Rhatkinson Wrote: If John Surratt was indeed in DC on the night of the assassination, why wouldn't he have assisted with the plot?

Of all the conspirators, as a courier, John had the most experience in espionage and undercover activities
He may have recognized (like Sam Arnold, Mike O'Laughlin and maybe George A.) that the plot and escape had very little chance of succeeding.
He may have even known Booth's character better than the rest of the conspirators, and recognized that Booth was not a team player.
And he probably recognized it was to late for the south to benefit from Booth kidnap/assassination plot.

I think his biggest motivation for not assisting further in the assassination plot was self preservation.

Laurie Verge · 05-03-2013, 10:22 AM

Good points, Gene. Just be careful with the last one since it is quite possible that Surratt did not know that the plot had definitely changed to murder - especially if it changed as of the night of April 11. And, if he already had orders from Gen. Edwin Lee (which I believe he did), he had to obey those orders (for self preservation also?).