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Lincoln Wonk · 02-28-2013, 11:12 AM

The casting for Atzerodt couldn't have been better. It was refreshing to see this well-researched portrayal of him as a man who was all-in for a kidnapping but not for an assassination. Too often, he's portrayed as a flunkee too drunk or too cowardly to do the deed.

Laurie Verge · 02-28-2013, 12:53 PM

If nothing else, it is my sincere desire that Killing Lincoln (and other well-done productions) as well as this forum will convince people now and in the future that each of Booth's conspirators had specific traits and skills that would prove useful if all things went as planned. Atzerodt, for one, was never too drunk nor too cowardly to shuttle Confederates across the Potomac during the war (and run the risk of Union patrol boats).

We have discussed Powell to death here on this forum, but he was a well-trained soldier and Mosby partisan, doing what it took to serve the Confederacy. John Surratt, Jr. was trusted enough in Richmond to have direct contact with the hierarchy there as well as in Canada. Herold may have been immature, but he sure knew his way around the people and roads of Southern Maryland.

My personal opinion is that they formed a talented, but motley, crew that no one would ever assume could be dangerous. Therefore, they could work under the radar.

BettyO · 02-28-2013, 01:04 PM

Amen - Well said, Sister Laurie!! Sleepy

Lincoln Wonk · 02-28-2013, 01:09 PM

A good perspective. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it makes so much sense that individuals who were invisible to power people could carry out a plan without even a whit of notice.

Linda Anderson · 02-28-2013, 01:55 PM

I need the DVD to be able to take in all the details of "Killing Lincoln" so I hope they will be available at the Conference. There is so much to absorb that it needs to be watched slowly and carefully like Tom Bogar did.

Erik, did you have Robert Lincoln accompanying his father in Richmond? I remember Tad, of course, but I could have completely missed Robert.

Fanny Seward writes about Lincoln's visit on April 9 while her father was bedridden. Lincoln "told us much about his visit to Richmond, & that one of his last [?] acts was going through a hospital of seven thousand men, & shaking hands with each one. He spoke of working as hard at it as sawing wood - & seemed, in his goodness of heart, much satisfied at the labor. He spoke of the escort that met him & took him into Richmond - & his son Robert with them."

Loomings · 02-28-2013, 01:59 PM

(02-28-2013 01:55 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Fanny Seward writes about Lincoln's visit on April 9 while her father was bedridden. Lincoln "told us much about his visit to Richmond, & that one of his last [?] acts was going through a hospital of seven thousand men, & shaking hands with each one. He spoke of working as hard at it as sawing wood - & seemed, in his goodness of heart, much satisfied at the labor. He spoke of the escort that met him & took him into Richmond - & his son Robert with them."

I believe that is Fanny's mistake. Robert was not along for the walk. Tad was.

E

Linda Anderson · 02-28-2013, 04:31 PM

(02-28-2013 01:59 PM)Loomings Wrote:
(02-28-2013 01:55 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Fanny Seward writes about Lincoln's visit on April 9 while her father was bedridden. Lincoln "told us much about his visit to Richmond, & that one of his last [?] acts was going through a hospital of seven thousand men, & shaking hands with each one. He spoke of working as hard at it as sawing wood - & seemed, in his goodness of heart, much satisfied at the labor. He spoke of the escort that met him & took him into Richmond - & his son Robert with them."

I believe that is Fanny's mistake. Robert was not along for the walk. Tad was.

E

Fanny may have meant that Robert escorted Lincoln in Petersburg, not Richmond. Lincoln saw Robert in Peterburg on April 3 after the city had been evacuated.

"On March 29, Grant began his final push against Lee's army and moved his staff and headquarters closer to the front. It was during this time that Robert Lincoln participated in the fall of Petersburg and Richmond...

"After visiting both Petersburg and Richmond, President Lincoln telegraphed his wife, 'Petersburg and Richmond are both in our hands; and Tad and I have been to the former and have been with Bob four or five hours. He is well and in good spirits.'"

Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln

Loomings · (This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 04:35 PM by Loomings.)

[/quote]Fanny may have meant that Robert escorted Lincoln in Petersburg, not Richmond. Lincoln saw Robert in Peterburg on April 3 after the city had been evacuated.

"On March 29, Grant began his final push against Lee's army and moved his staff and headquarters closer to the front. It was during this time that Robert Lincoln participated in the fall of Petersburg and Richmond...

"After visiting both Petersburg and Richmond, President Lincoln telegraphed his wife, 'Petersburg and Richmond are both in our hands; and Tad and I have been to the former and have been with Bob four or five hours. He is well and in good spirits.'"

Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln
[/quote]

That's precisely what I believe. For what it's worth!

E

Laurie Verge · 02-28-2013, 05:10 PM

I just sent Jason Emerson an e-mail asking for his valued assessment of Lincoln's sons' presences on the Richmond walk. IMO, I think Lincoln met with Robert at Grant's headquarters; but I also believe the story that Tad went with his father into the streets of Richmond.

wsanto · 02-28-2013, 06:31 PM

(02-28-2013 05:10 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: I just sent Jason Emerson an e-mail asking for his valued assessment of Lincoln's sons' presences on the Richmond walk. IMO, I think Lincoln met with Robert at Grant's headquarters; but I also believe the story that Tad went with his father into the streets of Richmond.

Probably not part of Lincoln's calculation, but having Tad with him in Richmond probably made it safer for him. Anyone thinking of taking a shot at Lincoln would think twice if he had his twelve-year old son with him.

L Verge · 02-28-2013, 06:52 PM

Good point about Tad being somewhat of a protection. I also wonder how many Richmond people with revenge on their mind were still there at that point.

Betty knows the city's history at the end of the war better than I, but I would suspect that the better class citizens who had lost the most had skedaddled when the Yanks got to the city gates. The lower classes were likely too busy getting drunk from the barrels that had been looted from warehouses or destroyed by the fleeing proprietors -- or too drunk to remember where they left their weapons. The black population would seem to be no threat at all.

That's just a guess on my part. Any thoughts?

Linda Anderson · 02-28-2013, 07:53 PM

I found an article in the Vermont Journal dated April 15, 1865 that states that Tad was with his father in Richmond.

"The arrival of the President in the city, as described to me here, must have been a curious spectacle. The party landed at the Rockets.- There was no expectation of the visit or preparation for it in Richmond. The wharf was deserted, and a carriage was out of the question. So the President had nothing left but to walk into town, a distance of about a mile. - The procession was not large, - consisting of Mr. Lincoln, his son Tad, who accompanies him everywhere, and Admiral Porter, one or two other military and navel officers, and an enterprising newspaper correspondent, whom the crowd undoubtedly took to be Vice President Johnson."

Also, the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond has a flag that is identified as:

"Flag brought from Richmond,
VA, April 1865 by President
Abraham Lincoln’s son, Tad."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/itinerant_w...075097617/

RJNorton · 03-01-2013, 05:39 AM

Linda, thanks for finding that article. I guess Tad was along for the walk. I used to believe that, but I started having my doubts about 15 years ago. That's when the Winter 1997 Lincoln Herald arrived and included an article by William Hanchett titled "Persistent Myths of the Lincoln Assassination." Dr. Hanchett writes, "In the unfortunate but well-established traditions of memories, Crook committed many other unkindnesses to truth." Dr. Hanchett is skeptical of all of Crook's stories from April 1865, and certainly seems to think Crook is an extremely unreliable source who is capable of creating false stories. Since that time I have had my doubts on the story of Crook and Tad walking with the president in Richmond. But if there is a contemporary newspaper account that says Tad walked the streets then I will have to reshape my thinking and go back to my pre-1997 belief.

Admiral David Porter gave a very detailed account of the walk, and I do not think he mentioned either Tad or Crook being there. That account starts on p. 294 here.

03-01-2013, 09:36 AM

(02-28-2013 12:53 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: My personal opinion is that they formed a talented, but motley, crew that no one would ever assume could be dangerous. Therefore, they could work under the radar.

Basically a 'hide in plain sight' situation

Laurie Verge · 03-01-2013, 09:48 AM

Roger - I'm suspicious of Crook being in Richmond with Lincoln. His duty was to protect the White House, not the President. Maybe his claim of being there with Lincoln and Tad is the hoax?