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Linda Anderson · 07-16-2012, 05:33 PM

That's unbelievable that Powell could last so long, Rick. Maybe Dr. Houmes will explain all this at the Conference next March.

Another Medical Mystery I'd loved explained is how Fred Seward survived his terrible head wounds. He was hemorrhaging for weeks after Powell assaulted him.

L Verge · 07-16-2012, 05:37 PM

I remember one author many long years ago commenting on Paine's large neck muscles and that he tensed them as long as he could in order to prevent the rope from cutting off his windpipe. Whether that is possible or not, I have no idea.

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-16-2012 05:46 PM by BettyO.)

(07-16-2012 05:37 PM)L Verge Wrote: I remember one author many long years ago commenting on Paine's large neck muscles and that he tensed them as long as he could in order to prevent the rope from cutting off his windpipe. Whether that is possible or not, I have no idea.

Who was that author? Interesting....I've never heard that before. Dr. Gillette said that he could hear Powell gasping and that it haunted him for the rest of his life....apparently the rope was cutting his windpipe. I'm sure that the rope still cut deep into his neck; thick muscles or no.... According to what I've read, Powell's contortions were made after he had gone unconscious; that it was some sort of muscle contractions.... I don't know. It's one of the things that I want to ask Blaine. A very, very cruel death....

L Verge · 07-16-2012, 06:01 PM

Wish I could remember that author, Betty. Unfortunately, old age is getting to me.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 07-16-2012 08:27 PM by Gene C.)

I remember reading something like that too, Laurie.

Powell kept trying to pull himself up to releave the pressure on his throat, and would pull his knees up to almost a sitting position. He was not unconcious while he was doing this.

As for Davey, when someone dies, all their muscles relax. It is not uncommon for them to wet themselves or worse.
(my brother in law used to be an undertaker)

Rick Smith · 07-16-2012, 08:32 PM

(07-16-2012 08:26 PM)Gene C Wrote: I remember reading something like that too, Laurie.

Powell kept trying to pull himself up to releave the pressure on his throat, and would pull his knees up to almost a sitting position. He was not unconcious while he was doing this.

As for Davey, when someone dies, all their muscles relax. It is not uncommon for them to wet themselves or worse.
(my brother in law used to be an undertaker)

Gene,

One of the reasons battlefields smell so bad.

Rick

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-16-2012 08:59 PM by BettyO.)

(07-16-2012 08:32 PM)Rick Smith Wrote:
(07-16-2012 08:26 PM)Gene C Wrote: I remember reading something like that too, Laurie.

Powell kept trying to pull himself up to releave the pressure on his throat, and would pull his knees up to almost a sitting position. He was not unconcious while he was doing this.

As for Davey, when someone dies, all their muscles relax. It is not uncommon for them to wet themselves or worse.
(my brother in law used to be an undertaker)

Gene,

One of the reasons battlefields smell so bad.

Rick

I think that is why Lew Powell refused all food and drink that morning....he had been a soldier and had been on battlefields and seen (and more than likely smelled) the dead....he didn't want that final indignity.... MORE questions for Blaine!

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 05:47 AM by BettyO.)

One reason, I think that Powell looked so "chipper" going to the gallows was that he was the only one who wasn't "drugged" or in other words under the influence of stimulants....

Mrs. Surratt was given Wine of Valerian, an herbal stimulant, as was Herold. Atzerodt, according to one or two accounts, had imbibed freely of brandy. Lew Powell had told his spiritual adviser, Dr. Gillette that he wanted to "die with an unclouded mind." Therefore, he walked to the scaffold with his head up and unsupported while Mrs. Surratt, Herold and Atzerodt were supposedly "half carried." It was also stated that Powell "bounded" up the 13 steps of the scaffold, but I would have to think more or less this purported "bounding" was more of a hop up the steps because his ankles were shackled together by about 12-18 inches of chain! Therefore, Powell could not take decent steps and this gave him a somewhat "jaunty" air going up the gallows steps. I would also have to question any "striding" made by Powell through the prison yard. Again, pretty difficult when his ankles were shackled....

Rsmyth · 07-17-2012, 06:18 AM

I keep going back to Betty's picture of Mary Surratt sitting on the gallows the noose dangling in front of her. You can clearly see her mouth and ear beneath the veil and can almost make out her eyes and nose. It is quite unsettling to see such a closeup of someone about to die.

Linda Anderson · 07-17-2012, 06:42 AM

I think that the authorities would want have wanted them drugged or drunk as who knows what they would have done on the scaffold otherwise: scream, cry, or beg for mercy. They knew Powell could handle it, otherwise I bet they would have drugged whatever he did drink.

I agree that the closeup of Mary is a haunting one. Now that I think of it, the ghost of Mary has been seen or heard at the Surratt House, the H St. boarding house and Fort McNair.

Anyone ever hear of the ghosts of Powell, Atzerodt or Herold haunting places?

BettyO · 07-17-2012, 06:48 AM

(07-17-2012 06:18 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: I keep going back to Betty's picture of Mary Surratt sitting on the gallows the noose dangling in front of her. You can clearly see her mouth and ear beneath the veil and can almost make out her eyes and nose. It is quite unsettling to see such a closeup of someone about to die.

We have John Elliott and Barry Cauchon to thank for zooming in and giving us the FIRST view of this haunting photograph. It is extremely interesting to see this closeup. I blew up my photo of Powell on the gallows with his head bowed while Gillette prays and you can see that he is weeping in that photograph as well. They are both very unsettling and tragic photographs - two people; one a woman and one a young boy - both about to die....

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 08:03 AM by BettyO.)

(07-17-2012 06:42 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I think that the authorities would want have wanted them drugged or drunk as who knows what they would have done on the scaffold otherwise: scream, cry, or beg for mercy. They knew Powell could handle it, otherwise I bet they would have drugged whatever he did drink.

I agree that the closeup of Mary is a haunting one. Now that I think of it, the ghost of Mary has been seen or heard at the Surratt House, the H St. boarding house and Fort McNair.

Anyone ever hear of the ghosts of Powell, Atzerodt or Herold haunting places?

I don't know about Powell being "drugged". Yes, he could handle it, but that didn't mean that he was emotionless. There are reports otherwise -

Yes, supposedly Mary haunts many places (she must be quite well traveled in the "Afterlife")

I have never heard any ghost stories involving the "Boys" though? Has anyone else?

Recently, within the past few months, myself and Lindsey Horn visited Fort McNair and in leaving Quarters 20, we looked up at the third floor window (the room off the courtroom supposedly where Mary was taken and where Powell had his medical examination.) As we looked up and photographed the building - we saw this! Rather unsettling - BUT.....

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Lindsey remembered seeing a piece of paper taped to the window! Of such things are ghost stories made! Big Grin

Lindsey · 07-17-2012, 08:31 AM

I've heard of the story of Davey wetting himself and Lewis having...well, something that only happens to men. I think that is just wishful thinking on account of Lewis' good looks and Davey been a cowardly boy so they wanted to embarass him even in death. Certainly, either thing could have happened but there is no proof so I tend not to put any stock in it. I've discussed it with John Howard, who might as well be a doctor, and he said it doesn't necessarily happen.

Roger, if my comment about Lewis is inappropriate please take this comment down.

BettyO · 07-17-2012, 08:38 AM

(07-17-2012 08:31 AM)Lindsey Wrote: I've heard of the story of Davey wetting himself and Lewis having...well, something that only happens to men. I think that is just wishful thinking on account of Lewis' good looks and Davey been a cowardly boy so they wanted to embarass him even in death. Certainly, either thing could have happened but there is no proof so I tend not to put any stock in it. I've discussed it with John Howard, who might as well be a doctor, and he said it doesn't necessarily happen.

Roger, if my comment about Lewis is inappropriate please take this comment down.

Lindsey -
Thanks! I've already discussed this with Blaine Houmes and he agrees - that there is no definite proof that either gentleman disgraced himself as the case may be....

Case closed on that matter!

RJNorton · (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 01:17 PM by RJNorton.)

Hi Lindsey. Your comments are perfectly OK. When I was teaching my students used to read about Lewis' constipation issues in prison, and they got a big kick out that. Also, during the last six years I taught, Illinois required that the Holocaust be part of the curriculum, and the principal assigned that unit to me. Needless to say the students saw images/descriptions that make your words seem very benign.

But, Lindsey, I thank you for asking as this entire forum will be available to students, schools, teachers, librarians, homeschoolers, etc. as Google and other search engines index the content. The site is under my domain, which is familiar to many schools, so I sure do appreciate your thoughtfulness in asking.