The New York Crowd

[John Stanton]

I sorted out my files, and I find a ton of stuff on "The New York Crowd", but it needs more sorting. I'm going to push on a Union Agent who infiltrated the KGC. He wrote a report, that I don't have. I AM HOOKED! I need to know where the money came from - who supported the spying? I'm gathering names, to see if they show up in other places. I learned something already - Clement Vanlandingham is not HIS name. It's Vallandigham. (Good start). I think (unsupported) that McClellan in on the bad side. Hot Dog! I got a project.

[RJNorton]

John, did you find anything specifically about New York cotton speculators wanting Lincoln out because of the dramatic decline in cotton prices late in the war?

[JMadonna]

Pretty sure that the money came from Richmond. It was to be used to disrupt the 1864 election & then the 'burning of NY'. Jacob Thompson was pulling the strings on this project. Colonel Robert M. Martin, a brigade commander in Morgan's cavalry, had been detached by Secretary of War Benjamin to take an active part with the Sons of Liberty in inaugurating a revolution on the day of the presidential election, November 8th. Martin was in charge of the whole thing.

[Laurie Verge]

Definitely zero in on Judah Benjamin (IMO) and don't forget George Sanders.

[Gene C]

If your looking for a conspiracy, and a money angle, don't ignore Salmon Chase. He desperately wanted to be president, and worked behind the Presidents back to try and get the support of radical republicans in 64'. He tried again in 68. Even his daughter, Kate Chase, marries rich, but creepy Rhode Island Senator Willaim Sprague, (to help finance his presidential efforts?)(talk about a bad marriage) Chase worked closely with the rich people in NY to help finance the war. I don't understand the details, but there was some kind of scandal in the Treasury dept in 1863? There is some mention of this in Death to Traitors by Jacob Mogelever. Everyones's friend, Lafayette Baker, investigated this, so mix that into a conspiracy theory too. Chase doesn't have his picture on the $10,000 bill because of his good looks. Have fun with this angle for a conspiracy.

[Jenny]

Jerry's avatar with the "hidden face" is a little freaky!

As for "The New York Crowd," this is a group that I believe existed but I know sadly little about the possibilities on who they were, how many there were, etc. So thank you for this discussion! *keeps listening intently*

[JMadonna]

(11-19-2012 01:06 PM)Jenny Wrote:  Jerry's avatar with the "hidden face" is a little freaky!

Chicks dig it!

[L Verge]

Seriously Jerry - did you know that the mysterious face was "hidden" in the chin of Sam Elliott?

I also agree that Salmon Chase needs to be investigated also.

[JMadonna]

(11-19-2012 07:35 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Seriously Jerry - did you know that the mysterious face was "hidden" in the chin of Sam Elliott?

I also agree that Salmon Chase needs to be investigated also.

No Laurie - the discovery is completely yours. Kind of like the face of the man on Mars that everyone was excited about a few years ago. Nothing but light and shadows.

[Gene C]

(11-19-2012 07:35 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I also agree that Salmon Chase needs to be investigated also.

I wasn't really serious when I mentioned Salmon Chase as part of the conspiracy, although they way I stated certain facts, it does make you wonder. He was in a position to profit greatly from his position of Treasury Secratary, but he didn't. He let his (and his daughter Kate's) political ambition overecome him. He caused a lot of anguish for President Lincoln, yet Lincoln was able to see beyond his faults to appoint him to the Supreme Court. He didn't have to do that.

Jerry said something above, that I am going to take out of context.
What I wrote earlier about a conspiracy involving Salmon Chase...

"Nothing but light and shadows"

P.S. But, then again, you never know......

[John Stanton]

Thanx for your comments. I don't have a plan yet. I think I will read read some authors, that I have avoided, up to now (Higham, Neff, etc.). I'm starting with the 1864 Presidental race. That must have riled all those against Lincoln, and pushed them to consider drastic action. Anyone interested in the AL Assassination, should have read this background long ago. I didn't. But I'm sure I will meet some new spies.

[RJNorton]

(11-16-2012 07:56 PM)L Verge Wrote:  David Keehn might. He's the gentleman who spoke at last year's Surratt conference on the Knights of the Golden Circle. His book is due out soon, and he has been asked to do signings at the 2013 conference. I read his work while still in manuscript form, and it was very good.

Laurie just sent me a .pdf file about this book, and I uploaded it to my server.

It's here.

Thank you, Laurie.

[John Stanton]

(11-19-2012 05:35 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  John, did you find anything specifically about New York cotton speculators wanting Lincoln out because of the dramatic decline in cotton prices late in the war?

I have not found any records of prices falling, toward the end of the war, but there was a problem with Gen, Grant, who tried to stop the tradeing with the enemy, in opposition to the two laws that were passed controling the exchange of pork for cotton , turpentine and rosin. As it became more difficult to pass the cotton through the lines, the South burned the cotton to prevent thr North from capturing the cotton and taking it home - free. By this time, the South was sending ALL their cotton North, because the blockade prevented them from selling some to England and France.

If anyone finds another answer, Plez let us hear from you

[Thomas Thorne]

Salmon Chase,leading abolitionist, conspiring with other abolitionists, AND Stanton AND Baker AND cotton speculators AND Judah P. Benjamin AND JWB AND the Pope AND August Belmont acting for the Rothschilds seems very Sunn International to me.

Would not such a breathtakingly disparate and antagonistic group of conspirators plotting in a New York hotel have to summon the desk clerk to get take out ammunition after they shot each another first?

I have often wondered if Booth's "New York crowd" consisted of a babe he stashed away in a New York apartment. Would you not want to get away from George Atzerodt?

Remember the military admonition KISS-"Keep It Simple,Stupid."
Tom

[JMadonna]

George N. Sanders had been a 'New Yorker' since screwing up the Pierce administration. His 'crowd' probably was a hit squad made up by the recently freed St. Alben raiders. Judah Benjamin most likely gave the official or non-official nod.