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Craig Hipkins · 07-10-2012, 08:06 PM

(07-10-2012 12:04 PM)BettyO Wrote:
(07-10-2012 07:37 AM)J. Beckert Wrote: I think the bonnet proves that he may have, Betty and I hope some more things eventually turn up. Acquiring souvenirs was very prominent it seems right up into this century. I've heard women were dipping their handkerchiefs and men broke off pieces of their straw hats to dip in Dillinger's blood after he was shot in 1934. I'm sure things were even worse in Lincoln's time. I can't think of anything associated that wasn't torn to shreds for this sake. Ford's and everything within, Petersen's, even the gallows, rope, etc. were hacked up and taken. I'm sure those closely associated with the proceedings got more than their share.
Betty,
There is that famous photo of Powell standing up wearing a white coat and hat. I wonder if that is the same hat that was found on the Seward's floor? We all know he was wearing that shirtsleeve over his head when he showed up at Surratt boarding house.

Craig

I have a newspaper article which DOES state that Powell's slouch hat, which was found by Fanny Seward on the floor of Seward's bedroom, was still in the government hands at the Turn of the 20th Century -- so maybe it's tucked away somewhere in the NPS Vault. Sometimes I don't think that they KNOW just what they have. Dave Taylor says that things there get lost, mislabeled, etc. Seeing how they put Lewis Powell's saddle together wrong on recent display only seems to confirm the story!

Gene C · 07-10-2012, 09:28 PM

Linda,

Just skimmed over Fanny's diary for April 14th...I wanted to stop reading, I wanted to keep reading, all at the same time.
Reading that made me feel like she was personally talking to me, recalling the terrible events of that night. I'll have to go back and read the whole thing from the beginning. Fanny's diary has got to be the most vivid account of the attack on Secretary Seward I have ever read.

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-10-2012 10:09 PM by BettyO.)

(07-10-2012 08:06 PM)Craig Hipkins Wrote:
(07-10-2012 12:04 PM)BettyO Wrote:
(07-10-2012 07:37 AM)J. Beckert Wrote: I think the bonnet proves that he may have, Betty and I hope some more things eventually turn up. Acquiring souvenirs was very prominent it seems right up into this century. I've heard women were dipping their handkerchiefs and men broke off pieces of their straw hats to dip in Dillinger's blood after he was shot in 1934. I'm sure things were even worse in Lincoln's time. I can't think of anything associated that wasn't torn to shreds for this sake. Ford's and everything within, Petersen's, even the gallows, rope, etc. were hacked up and taken. I'm sure those closely associated with the proceedings got more than their share.
Betty,
There is that famous photo of Powell standing up wearing a white coat and hat. I wonder if that is the same hat that was found on the Seward's floor? We all know he was wearing that shirtsleeve over his head when he showed up at Surratt boarding house.

Craig

I have a newspaper article which DOES state that Powell's slouch hat, which was found by Fanny Seward on the floor of Seward's bedroom, was still in the government hands at the Turn of the 20th Century -- so maybe it's tucked away somewhere in the NPS Vault. Sometimes I don't think that they KNOW just what they have. Dave Taylor says that things there get lost, mislabeled, etc. Seeing how they put Lewis Powell's saddle together wrong on recent display only seems to confirm the story!

Yes, Craig - that is the very same hat...

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You can see blood on the hat band and crown (Red Circle) ....

BettyO · 07-11-2012, 07:08 AM

Speaking of Powell's "personal effects" - I also found this interesting article in the NY Times for April 17, 1865, the night Lew Powell returned to Mrs. Surratt's house and taken into custody:

A GRAY COAT STAINED WITH BLOOD FOUND.
WASHINGTON, Monday, April 17.

Yesterday a grey coat stained with blood, and which evidently had been worn as an overcoat, was found near Fort Bunker Hill, just back of Glenwood Cemetery. In the pocket was a false moustache, a pair of riding gloves, and a slip of paper, upon which was "MARY E. GARDNER, 419." The coat is supposed to have been worn by the man who attacked Secretary SEWARD, although the weight of the evidence indicates that all the conspirators took the same route -- that of the navy-yard bridge.

I have wondered about the false moustache. Apparently Lew Powell had quite a few of these little things. Remember there was the one that Lew Powell was searching for at the Surratt boarding house and which was absconded by Weichmann. Here is reference to another. Apparently these false 'staches' were courtesy of JWB's theatrical wardrobe perhaps and given to the hirsute-less young Powell....

One thus wonders if Powell really USED these things! There are first reports that the man who attacked Seward had a moustache! Did Powell actually use these? Was he that afraid of violating his parole?

What do ya'll think?

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 07-13-2012 08:35 AM by Gene C.)

Linda Anderson wrote "Sections of Fanny's diary can be found online through the University of Rochester Rare Books and Special Collections: Lincoln and His Circle."

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?page=638
[/quote]

I committed a big mistake the other day and I want to publicly appologize to Linda Anderson. I was on another forum and I reffernced Fanny's Diary and some of it's contents without giving credit to the source of my information, which was Linda.

Linda I am very sorry for this oversight, and hope you will accept my sincere appology. Friends, learn from my mistake and give credit to the sources of your infomation.

Linda Anderson · 07-13-2012, 09:16 AM

Thanks for the apology, Gene. It's much appreciated.

Rsmyth · 07-14-2012, 06:52 AM

Who is Mary Gardiner 419?

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-14-2012 07:39 AM by BettyO.)

(07-14-2012 06:52 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: Who is Mary Gardiner 419?

Mary Gardiner was a dance hall girl (more than likely a prostitute) who, with her sister, was playing at the Canterbury Music Hall. I mention her in Alias Paine. I believe that this is where the conspirators met on the night of April 14 - not the Herndon House. A Union soldier who gave testimony at the Surratt Trial in 1867 stated that about 5-7 pm on the 14th of April, he saw four men who looked like JWB, Herold, Atzerodt and Powell seated at a table in the Canterbury "talking in earnest." Miss Gardiner was dancing on stage at the time, and to quote the soldier, "throwing her legs about." This woman apparently had some interaction with Powell that night and gave him her card and hotel room number. Certainly NOT the actions of a proper "lady"....

Linda Anderson · 07-14-2012, 07:56 AM

(07-10-2012 09:28 PM)Gene C Wrote: Linda,

Just skimmed over Fanny's diary for April 14th...I wanted to stop reading, I wanted to keep reading, all at the same time.
Reading that made me feel like she was personally talking to me, recalling the terrible events of that night. I'll have to go back and read the whole thing from the beginning. Fanny's diary has got to be the most vivid account of the attack on Secretary Seward I have ever read.

Gene, there is so much to absorb in Fanny's account - Fred staring at her mutely as blood streams down his face - Powell rushing past her with a gun in one hand and a knife in the other - the terrible attack on her father -blood everywhere and hordes of people crowding into the house, that I always seem to find something new every time I read her account.

Anna, Fred's wife, was also present during Powell's attack as she had followed Fred inside Seward's bedroom. Fanny did not realize Anna was there. The only account I have found of Anna's experience is her testimony in the John Surratt trial in 1867 but it is very cut and dried.

Rsmyth · 07-15-2012, 06:32 AM

Thanks Betty. Throwing her legs about - oh my!

BettyO · 07-15-2012, 06:39 AM

(07-15-2012 06:32 AM)Rsmyth Wrote: Thanks Betty. Throwing her legs about - oh my!

The proper phrase in "mixed company" would have been "throwing her limbs about!" Apparently she was doing some sort of "Can-Can" dance or something....highly risque and highly popular for the period for reasons I WILL NOT go into here! HA!

RJNorton · (This post was last modified: 07-25-2012 05:08 AM by RJNorton.)

Betty, most authors have that final meeting taking place in the Herndon House. But your arguments for another location seem extremely logical to me. Do you know if Martha Murray ever made a statement regarding this alleged 8:00 P.M. meeting at the Herndon House? Didn't she something like they never came back after mid-to-late afternoon?

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 07-25-2012 05:44 AM by BettyO.)

(07-25-2012 05:05 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Betty, most authors have that final meeting taking place in the Herndon House. But your arguments for another location seem extremely logical to me. Do you know if Martha Murray ever made a statement regarding this alleged 8:00 P.M. meeting at the Herndon House? Didn't she something like they never came back after mid-to-late afternoon?

Hey, Roger!

Powell, according to Mrs.Murray, checked out at about 3 PM and as he hadn't had lunch, she ordered a plate of cold beef to be sent to the dining room for him to eat before he left, which he did. I have never seen where she stated that they ever came back. It always just seemed odd to me that if Lew checked out at 3PM, then how or why would he come traipsing back in at 8 PM with three friends to hold a "meeting" in his old room?!

It'd be akin to us today checking out of a motel/hotel at say, 11 AM and then coming back at 5 PM to go back to our previous room to hold a meeting. It would be very odd - plus the room would already be re-inhabited or locked or both! Maybe I'm looking at this through 20th Century eyes.

But I simply find it odd that Powell and friends would come back to his old hotel room after he signed out, paid Mrs. Murray in full, ate lunch and then turns up later that evening with 3 friends to "visit" his old room! Surely she would have seen him -- and recorded it! I don't think that JWB and Company wanted to be that intrusive....

Regarding the testimony at the Surratt Trial which the soldier saw, it makes more sense for JWB and Co. to meet somewhere where they would not be conspicuous. The dance hall would fill that bill. Four guys would blend in in a dance hall situation. Plus, there was that card in Lew Powell's pocket -- I put two and two together and it does seem to make the proverbial four - especially with the Gardiner sisters playing at the Canterbury at that time....I know that Atzerodt stated that they met at the Herndon House -- but I wonder if he was simply befuddled, someone took down the wrong information during his "confession", or he meant that they did meet at the Herndon House (which they certainly could have) - but just NOT on the evening of the 14th....

RJNorton · (This post was last modified: 07-25-2012 05:50 AM by RJNorton.)

George Atzerodt agreed with you in his statement of July 6, 1865. In that statement he wrote, "...on the night of the murder, the 14th of April, we were not all together at the Herndon House."

If this be true, and the "final meeting" took place earlier, then George Atzerodt had more than a two hour "window of opportunity" to alter history.

BettyO · 07-25-2012, 05:53 AM

(07-25-2012 05:44 AM)RJNorton Wrote: George Atzerodt agreed with you in his statement of July 6, 1865. In that statement he wrote, "...we were not all together at the Herndon House."

That Atzerodt did previously visit Lew Powell at the Herndon House is obvious, as he stated that he went to Powell's room and saw him "clean his teeth and oil and comb his hair". Atzerodt stated that he saw a bottle of hair oil on the boy's wash stand. Atzerodt further stated that Powell AKA "Mosby" or "Wood" was a "good looking young man." Powell was obviously concerned with his appearance. They apparently were going out somewhere and Atzerodt came to meet Powell. Perhaps another visit to the Canterbury? Who knows....

I simply think that they met elsewhere on the evening of the 14th of April.