I’m not offended!

[Gene C]

Before I get offended by the turn in this conversation.....getting back to the original comment....

I am assuming the Betsy Ross flag design is in the public domain?
So would it be a copyright infringement if another shoe company came out with a similar design since Nike pulled theirs?

Interesting that the company with a motto or sales slogan of "Just Do It', ... wouldn't do it.

[DanielC]

Gene, I do not believe it would be a copyright infringement for another shoe company to come out with a similar design. With that said, I do not think it would go over well with the true Police that need to be reined in.. The PC Police.

[L Verge]

(07-08-2019 07:12 PM)DanielC Wrote:  Gene, I do not believe it would be a copyright infringement for another shoe company to come out with a similar design. With that said, I do not think it would go over well with the true Police that need to be reined in.. The PC Police.

Amen. This PC stuff is getting out of hand. Does anyone remember when and by whom it got started? I feel like I just woke up one day and it was upon us. I am also finding that some folks (at work) can get away with being non-PC and others get written up for silly/minor things as perceived by their supervisors. It is now becoming another point of discrimination, imo.

[AussieMick]

We have a case right now where Israel Folau has been sacked from his chosen profession by Rugby Australia. He is one of the world's top players (we dont have many of them) and Rugby Australia's contract stipulated that he wasnt to say anything in the media which would offend homosexuals. However he's a very committed Christian and has quoted the Bible's Old Testament and stated that Idolaters and Homosexuals (and a few others) will go to Hell unless they repent. Various rugby sponsors complained on behalf of homosexuals. He is suing for wrongful dismissal. The court case is continuing ...

(When he tried to use GoFundMe to get $$$ to support his legal costs, there were complaints and they pulled his appeal ... so a Christian lobby group sought donations and got 2 million in 2 days)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb...46521.html

[LincolnMan]

(07-08-2019 08:24 PM)AussieMick Wrote:  We have a case right now where Israel Folau has been sacked from his chosen profession by Rugby Australia. He is one of the world's top players (we dont have many of them) and Rugby Australia's contract stipulated that he wasnt to say anything in the media which would offend homosexuals. However he's a very committed Christian and has quoted the Bible's Old Testament and stated that Idolaters and Homosexuals (and a few others) will go to Hell unless they repent. Various rugby sponsors complained on behalf of homosexuals. He is suing for wrongful dismissal. The court case is continuing ...

(When he tried to use GoFundMe to get $$$ to support his legal costs, there were complaints and they pulled his appeal ... so a Christian lobby group sought donations and got 2 million in 2 days)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb...46521.html

Sounds like he willingly chose to violate the contract. Therefore he was dismissed rightly.

[David Lockmiller]

(07-08-2019 11:18 AM)My Name Is Kate Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 11:10 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  The doubts and criticisms were reported by the New York Times. I just did a copy and paste from three stories.

Wow. What a classic copout.

I haven't been following the Gallagher trial at all. All I know is that he is a Navy Seal who was accused of murder. But I do know that most liberals tend to take a negative view of our military (and of law enforcement in general).

Did you bother to read my post?

Seven Navy Seals challenged a "pirate."

Stabbing a defenseless teenage captive to death. Picking off a school-age girl and an old man from a sniper’s roost. Indiscriminately spraying neighborhoods with rockets and machine-gun fire.

Is that the type of military conduct that "conservatives" defend?

If so, count me among the liberals.

[L Verge]

Personally, and perhaps unfairly, David, I already do count you as a liberal. Your place of residence and your seemingly blind devotion to the New York Times gave me my first clues. Are you old enough to have participated in the flag burnings and anti-military protests of the 1960s?

In this world of virtual reality, it would be interesting to place you in Afghanistan -- or Iran or Iraq or... - right now and watch as you identified who was the good guy/gal/elder or the bad guy/gal/elder. Which one will kill you at a minute's notice or which will beg you to give them asylum? Which is armed with concealed weapons? Which ten-year-old has already been trained to kill infidels? Why do modern liberals tend to ignore that there are two sides to every story?

Are there rogue military and rogue cops? Of course, just like there are rogue citizens who go ballistic, but there are much fewer of them than of "normal" folks, who try to live peacefully and with compassion. Why don't liberals take that into consideration?

And a final question for you: I can't get the events of Benghazi out of my head with the passage of time. What is/was your opinion of that event? Try to answer before Googling for a past edition of the New York Times, please.

[Gene C]

I think you both have expressed your view points with a lot of thought and clarity. We can benefit from respectfully listening to each others viewpoints, whether we agree or not. I've been caught up in the discussion myself.

For me it's time to please move on and get back to Lincoln studies.

[My Name Is Kate]

I took it for granted that DL is a liberal.

Here is a website that says there is helmet cam video proof that Gallagher did not kill the ISIS fighter. It's a military website (and therefore is probably conservative and will probably not be believed by some.)

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/05...nter-says/

[L Verge]

(07-09-2019 01:13 PM)Gene C Wrote:  I think you both have expressed your view points with a lot of thought and clarity. We can benefit from respectfully listening to each others viewpoints, whether we agree or not. I've been caught up in the discussion myself.

For me it's time to please move on and get back to Lincoln studies.

Gene - I am very happy to move on (but backwards). I say backwards because the military actions, decisions, trials, misdeeds -- whatever you want to call them -- were just as rampant in the American Civil War as what we have been arguing about today. Funny how war changes things, but still stays the same.

[David Lockmiller]

(07-09-2019 12:55 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Personally, and perhaps unfairly, David, I already do count you as a liberal. Your place of residence and your seemingly blind devotion to the New York Times gave me my first clues. Are you old enough to have participated in the flag burnings and anti-military protests of the 1960s?

For your information, I was old enough to participate in the draft in the Viet Nam War.

Did you participate in the draft during the Viet Nam War? I don't think so. But, I think that you should have. No doubt that you and Kate were advocating for female equality at the time . . . except for the military draft.

I watched on TV with my roommate as the lottery dates for the draft that year appeared on our little TV screen. One-third of the birth date numbers were taken in the draft that year. Mine was one of those numbers to be taken in the draft.

I remember as I left in the car to take the bus to Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri for basic training, my mother said to me: "I love you."

I did not know what would happen to me after basic training and so I paid special attention to the combat training exercises throughout my time at Fort Leonard Wood.

Here's a funny story that will bring lots of laughs for you and Kate:

We had a drill in basic training for the company on how to attack an enemy sentry at night (by the way, the top drill instructor for our company had as his principal job in Viet Nam, the training of new military units in night ambushes of the Viet Cong).

After the initial training demonstration, we were paired in simulated exercises in steps of 1-2-3 for three repetitions. I played my part well as the enemy. But when my teammate as the enemy did his part, he fell to the ground in the first two repetitions on the count of "two.'

So, on the third repetition of this combat training exercise, I took him to the ground when step number 2 was called out. His tongue flew out; he knew immediately what it was like to have his throat cut in the middle of the night.

I was "lucky" because of my educational background in accounting at the University of Illinois. Unfortunately, for many of the black draftees from St. Louis, their Advanced Individual Training (AIT) was in combat training and then on to Viet Nam and real war. My AIT was in accounting at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, Indiana. And, I served my time as an accountant on Okinawa (far from actual combat). I did receive combat pay for one month because I accompanied a "money run" to Viet Nam during the war. I was on the ground in Viet Nam for only two hours.

But, I have often thought back about what happened to those black draftees (most likely descendants of slaves before the Thirteenth Amendment to the U. S. Constitution) in my basic training company from the St. Louis and East St. Louis area that actually went to Viet Nam as soldiers in combat. I thought it was unfair then and I think it unfair now. [Yes, I did not complain at the time.]

And, now, when I think of President Donald Trump having been granted five medical deferments for a bone spur in his foot (as I recall) from a corrupt doctor during the Viet Nam War, "IT MAKES ME SICK."

Please do not bother responding, I do not have any interest in what either you or Kate have to say in response to this post. I do not trust either one of you to tell the truth.

[My Name Is Kate]

http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/vietnam/vwc10.htm

https://www.truthorfiction.com/bernie-sa...ft-dodger/

President Trump did not have five medical deferments for a bone spur in his foot. He had four college deferments and one medical deferment from a military doctor for bone spurs in both feet.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/08/02/d...eferments/

(I never said a word about DL's military service or lack thereof, yet I get thrown into his diatribe.)

"Did you participate in the draft during the Viet Nam War? I don't think so. But, I think that you should have. No doubt that you and Kate were advocating for female equality at the time . . . except for the military draft."

That is the exact same attitude dear old dad used to have. He often said that women should be in the front lines. He also said (many times) that this country ought to be blown up, that America was the laughingstock of the world, and that if he were president he would immediately institute martial law and a class system (like in feudal days.) He tried to con people into thinking he was a conservative, but now I know that he was actually a liberal!

[L Verge]

This is not for David's attention, but I was teaching during Viet Nam (one of Gen. Westmoreland's nieces was a student), and our school was right next to Andrews AFB, so many of the parents were deployed to the war zone. Try explaining the actions of some of the U.S. public to those students (all were teenagers). I am happy to hear that David did undergo the draft and basic training and that he did not get combat duty. That leaves him here so that I can disagree with him.

I should also mention (probably have before) that, as the war dragged on, some of my early students dropped out of school and joined the services. Many of them were African American and saw it as an opportunity to get an education, if they managed to dodge the bullets. One of the saddest days of my life, however, came around 1969, when a former student (white, not that it matters) showed up at my classroom door one day in full Army uniform. Ronnie had been a problem child that I had crossed swords with nearly every day. He had come to tell me that he was headed to Viet Nam -- and also to say that he wished he had paid more attention to what I had been trying to tell him because he had to learn it the hard way through Army training.

About six weeks later, I got a message from his mother that Ronnie had been killed overseas by enemy fire and would I please come to the viewing because I was one of the few teachers that he liked.

I also lost a high school and college classmate over there. He was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously. Google Capt. James Graham. I live about fifteen miles from the Viet Nam Memorial and have yet to visit it. I don't want to see those two names - nor find others that did not come back. Plus, that memorial is near the Korean Memorial. My father went through that war (and WWII) and survived, so understanding military hardship and sacrifice is part of my DNA.

As for female equality, I have not taken an active role in that. I feel that each person has the right to strive to be the best they can be at whatever they choose and that pay should be equitable across the board.

[David Lockmiller]

(07-10-2019 12:34 AM)My Name Is Kate Wrote:  President Trump did not have five medical deferments for a bone spur in his foot. He had four college deferments and one medical deferment from a military doctor for bone spurs in both feet.

Trump made up injury to dodge Vietnam service, his former lawyer testifies

Military Times story by Leo Shane III, February 27,2019

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump acknowledged to advisors that he made up a fake injury to avoid military service, because “I wasn’t going to Vietnam,” his former lawyer told lawmakers during testimony on Wednesday.

Michael Cohen, who also worked as a fixer for Trump before his election, said he was tasked with tamping down criticism of the military deferment as the presidential candidate simultaneously mocked Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, for being regarded as a military hero. “I like people who weren’t captured," Trump said during a July 2015 interview.

“Mr. Trump claimed (his medical deferment) was because of a bone spur, but when I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery,” Cohen told members of the House Oversight Committee. “He told me not to answer the specific questions by reporters but rather offer simply the fact that he received a medical deferment.

“He finished the conversation with the following comment: ‘You think I'm stupid, I wasn't going to Vietnam.’”

Kate, what is the source of your information that Trump received "one medical deferment from a military doctor for bone spurs in both feet?"

---

(07-10-2019 10:07 AM)L Verge Wrote:  This is not for David's attention, but I was teaching during Viet Nam (one of Gen. Westmoreland's nieces was a student), and our school was right next to Andrews AFB, so many of the parents were deployed to the war zone. Try explaining the actions of some of the U.S. public to those students (all were teenagers). I am happy to hear that David did undergo the draft and basic training and that he did not get combat duty. That leaves him here so that I can disagree with him.

That's my job . . . to disagree with you when you are wrong.

[AussieMick]

Is this the Michael Cohen that was found guilty of campaign-finance and financial-fraud crimes and of lying to Congress?