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L Verge · 10-01-2012, 01:44 PM

What are your opinions on the authenticity of the papers found on Dahlgren's body during the failed Kilpatrick-Dahlgren Raid on Richmond? Did they really exist or were they forgeries? And, most importantly, did they precipitate the later conspiracy plans against Lincoln in retaliation for what the Confederates perceived as black flag warfare against their President and Cabinet?

If they did exist, do you think Stanton had them destroyed when they were transferred to him?

Gene C · 10-01-2012, 01:58 PM

Ray Neff seemed to think that was a realistic possibility

BettyO · 10-01-2012, 01:59 PM

I believe, like Ed Steers, that this was a vital point in setting up the kidnap venture in March 1865 - a year from the purported Dahlgren Raid and I've heard Mr. Hall and General Tidwell discuss this many years ago -- I feel that they really existed and like most other things that they were either destroyed or hidden by Stanton; just like the autopsy photos of Booth.

"According to mysterious papers found on the body of the raid's commanding officer, colonel Ulric Dahlgren, one of their mission objectives was to assassinate Confederate President Jefferson Davis and his cabinet. Ulric Dahlgren was killed outside of Richmond on March 2 during a bungled raid on the confederate capital, ostensibly to free union prisoners. Late that evening thirteen year old William Littlepage discovered Dahlgren's body and searched its pockets for a pocketwatch. Instead he found a pocketbook and two folded papers, which he promptly turned over to his teacher Edward W. Halbach, a captain in the Confederate Home Guard. Halbach examined the papers the next morning, discovering that they contained signed orders on Union army stationary for a plot to assassinate Davis. According to one of the papers: "The men must keep together and well in hand, and once in the city it must be destroyed and Jeff. Davis and Cabinet killed." Halbach immediately contacted his commander, Captain Richard H. Bagby, and informed him of the discovery. At 2 p.m. on March 3 Bagby transferred the papers to Lieutenant James Pollard with instructions to deliver them to his commander Colonel James Beale. Beale instructed that they be delivered to the Confederate command in Richmond immediately. Pollard arrived in Richmond at noon on March 4 and delivered the papers to General Fitzhugh Lee. Lee, astonished at their contents, immediately took the papers to President Davis and Secretary of State Judah P. Benjamin. Davis quietly read through the documents in Lee's presence and paused when he reached the assassination order, remarking "That means you, Mr. Benjamin." Lee was then instructed to take the papers to the War Department where they were received by Secretary of War James A. Seddon. Seddon decided to release the documents publicly and sought Davis' approval to do so. The Richmond newspapers were contacted for a conference at the War Department and given copies of the orders, which were published the next morning on March 5. In coming months the papers were widely circulated in the Confederacy and in Europe as evidence of Union barbarism. Dahlgren was likened to Atilla the Hun and several union leaders were accused of participation in the plot up to and including President Abraham Lincoln. In the North, the papers were denounced as a forgery designed to weaken the Union's war effort. Dahlgren Paper authenticity: For many years a debate has waged over the authenticity of the Dahlgren Papers. Part of the mystery stems from the fact that the papers have not survived and appear to have been intentionally destroyed by Union Secretary of War Edwin Stanton in 1865. The papers were among a collection of important Confederate documents transferred to Washington after the surrender of Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. Stanton ordered Francis Lieber to remove the Dahlgren Papers from the Confederate files and deliver them to him personally. He then presumably destroyed them as they have not been seen since. Surviving records include transcripts of the documents, which were published in several newspapers, photographs of them that were provided by Lee to union general George Meade for investigation, and a lithograph based on the photographs that was made in Europe where Confederate agents circulated the document to stir up sympathy for their cause. Unfortunately the destruction of the records by Stanton has prevented their examination in modern times and restricted historical knowledge of them to the surviving copies and examinations conducted between March 5, 1864 and November 1865 when Stanton seized the papers. A leading proponent of the forgery allegation was Admiral John A. Dahlgren, Ulric's father, who spent the rest of his life trying to clear his son's name. The senior Dahlgren based his argument against their authenticity on a European lithograph of the orders in which his son's name was misspelled "Dalhgren." The source of this error was discovered after the admiral's death by former Confederate general Jubal A. Early, who discovered the source of the error while studying the photographs. The lithographer, working from the photographs, mistook the "l" for an "h" and transposed the two due to ink marks that bled through from the other side of the paper. After the controversy surrounding the documents developed, Union Brig. Gen. Judson Kilpatrick, who authorized the Dahlgren raid, was questioned by General Meade about the photographs sent by Lee. Kilpatrick indicated to Meade that the papers were indeed authentic as he had seen them when conferring with Dahlgren, but claimed that the confederates had altered them to include the assassination order. Meade officially replied to Lee that "neither the United States Government, myself, nor General Kilpatrick authorized, sanctioned, or approved the burning of the city of Richmond and the killing of Mr. Davis and cabinet," placing the blame solely on Dahlgren. Privately however, Meade confided to his wife that "Kilpatrick's reputation, and collateral evidence in my possession, rather go against this theory" that Dahlgren alone devised the conspiracy. In addition to Meade's private beliefs, the papers' authenticity is corroborated by statements from Bureau of Military Information officers John McEntee, who accompanied Dahlgren on the raid and thus saw the papers, and John Babcock. It is further noted that the custody of the papers from their discovery by Littlepage on March 2 to their delivery to Davis on March 4 is well documented. The short period of time between their transfer from Littlepage to Davis reduces the time in which a skilled forgerer could be found. Though the papers have long been disputed, recent scholarship by historians including Stephen W. Sears and Edward Steers, Jr. has tended to favor their authenticity, though few who believe in their authenticity contend they were written by anyone other than Dahlgren himself. One theory about the Lincoln Assassination holds that the Dahlgren Papers' discovery instigated the chain of events ending in John Wilkes Booth's murder of Abraham Lincoln the next year. Steers, in his history of the assassination Blood on the Moon, traces the assassination conspiracy's origins to this event.... Sears summarizes the relationship between Dahlgren and Booth as follows: 'Judson Kilpatrick, Ulric Dahlgren, and their probable patron Edwin Stanton set out to engineer the death of the Confederacy's president; the legacy spawned out of the utter failure of their effort may have included the death of their own president.' ".

From: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/chron/civilwar.html

Jim Garrett · 10-01-2012, 04:14 PM

I loved "Come Retribution" and have read it twice and use it for reference. The book mentions a couple of ancestors, so it makes it that much more interesting. On an interesting side note. Admiral Dahlgren had his son's leg entombed in a section of the wall surrounding the Washington Navy Yard. There was a plaque placed on the wall that commemerated the entombment. Over the years, the place of entombment have changed, however, the historian at the Navy Yard said that there was never any proof the the leg ever reposed behind the plaque in any of the locations.

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 06:45 PM by L Verge.)

Let's check on that leg story. I don't always trust the current historian for the Army (who is getting ready to retire, I understand). I think some others on this forum who have dealt with him would agree.

Jim Garrett · 10-01-2012, 07:14 PM

Edward Marolda?

Rsmyth · 10-01-2012, 07:56 PM

Laurie, let me give you a hand.

John Stanton · (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 09:12 PM by John Stanton.)

It is nice that you brought up Dahlgren's Raid at this time. The area around Richmond just finished a reenactment of the entire raid in the places where there was action - all on Horseback. Stopped trafffic in some places. I SPOKE WITH COL. DAHLGREN ON SATURDAY. He "Officially" had 84 riders, but was joined by more riders and rideresses, as they went along. By th time I saw them there was well over 100 Troopers - in full uniform (Blue), all armed. I took some pictures - on film. SOme came from as far away as Canada. I must confess, Dahlgren was an imposter - he had rwo legs. But he allowed me to search him - and he had the orders in his pocket. (He knew what I was up to. My host for the day - Jim Baker- knew I was into spies, so he asked me to talk, during a rest period about the spy who tipped off the South. That's a story I need to write up for the Courrier.

My server, limits the size of my transmissions, so I need to write MORE smaller posts - Here's some more.
In my "youth", up to about 10 years ago I was a reenactor. I was a "Confederate Regimental Surgeon" -Greeh hat and sash, black trim at the collar and cuffs. I'm adding this to let you know I have had experiences with reenactments. This one was different. The sponsers did a great job, telling the story of the Raid by going out and skirmishing where there were skirmishes. They did a better job telling the story of the raid, than any dash across a pasture, with lots of smoke and noise. The raid took several days.
Did anyone else see or participate in the Raid?

L Verge · 10-02-2012, 07:40 AM

I need to humbly apologize to the historian at the Navy Yard. In my foggy brain, I confused him with the historian at an Army post nearby. I have no objections to Edward Marolda's work and am sorry that I posted that I did.

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 10-02-2012 08:12 AM by BettyO.)

(10-01-2012 08:47 PM)John Stanton Wrote: It is nice that you brought up Dahlgren's Raid at this time. The area around Richmond just finished a reenactment of the entire raid in the places where there was action - all on Horseback. Stopped trafffic in some places. I SPOKE WITH COL. DAHLGREN ON SATURDAY. He "Officially" had 84 riders, but was joined by more riders and rideresses, as they went along. By th time I saw them there was well over 100 Troopers - in full uniform (Blue), all armed. I took some pictures - on film. SOme came from as far away as Canada. I must confess, Dahlgren was an imposter - he had rwo legs. But he allowed me to search him - and he had the orders in his pocket. (He knew what I was up to. My host for the day - Jim Baker- knew I was into spies, so he asked me to talk, during a rest period about the spy who tipped off the South. That's a story I need to write up for the Courrier.

My server, limits the size of my transmissions, so I need to write MORE smaller posts - Here's some more.
In my "youth", up to about 10 years ago I was a reenactor. I was a "Confederate Regimental Surgeon" -Greeh hat and sash, black trim at the collar and cuffs. I'm adding this to let you know I have had experiences with reenactments. This one was different. The sponsers did a great job, telling the story of the Raid by going out and skirmishing where there were skirmishes. They did a better job telling the story of the raid, than any dash across a pasture, with lots of smoke and noise. The raid took several days.
Did anyone else see or participate in the Raid?

John -- Were YOU there this Saturday!? So was I!! I missed you - but don't know what you look like...unfortunately, we've never met personally face to face!

John Stanton · 10-02-2012, 02:49 PM

Betty O. There may have been more than one reenactment on Saturday. As you know, Dahlgren and Kilpatrick split their force, and each had their own experiences. They may have been reenacting each group separately. I was somewhere in Goochland County, at the home of Bill Baker. I saw signs for "The Dahlgren Raid" pointing in directions different than our route. What beautiful country side,-huge horse farms - the stables are bigger than my house. My farm would fit in their paddock. WHAT A DAY ! We will solve the introduction problem soon, with the help of Laurie.

BettyO · 10-02-2012, 03:27 PM

John! That's where I was! Bill Baker's house! He's a close friend of my sister....she lives in Goochland and still has horses. She used to foxhunt. I still ride occasionally, but not as much as she does because my horses are all dead. I live in Hanover Country right outside of Cold Harbor and Gaines Mill..... What a coincidence! We were both there together and didn't know it!

John Stanton · (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 12:49 PM by John Stanton.)

Betty O. In your Post 607, you say " James Pollard ... delivered ths papers to Col. James Beale". Pollard was in the 9th VA CAV and the commander was Col. R.L.T. Beale (Richard Lee Turberville). Can you check your source to see if this is right? If correct who was James Beale? Anyone know?

Betty O. Did you stick around for the grub at Baker's? I spent my time in the kitchen in debate with the Judge. (Very short man, elderly, but not old, heavy, from Maryland.) I was aware that Jim was into Fox Hunting, by the Jumps in the fence lines. Except he hasn't cleared the trees in the landing area, so he must have given it up.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 11:19 AM by Gene C.)

Interesting article on the Dahlgren raid, especially the last paragraph. Orignaly from "Battles and Leaders (of the Civil War) vol. 4
This web site has several items regarding the raid, many I couldn't find a way to access
http://www.mdgorman.com/Written_Accounts...tricks.htm

An interesting point in BettyO's post #3
"Though the papers have long been disputed, recent scholarship by historians including Stephen W. Sears and Edward Steers, Jr. has tended to favor their authenticity, though few who believe in their authenticity contend they were written by anyone other than Dahlgren himself."

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 11:53 AM by L Verge.)

(05-22-2015 11:14 AM)Gene C Wrote: Interesting article on the Dahlgren raid, especially the last paragraph. Orignaly from "Battles and Leaders (of the Civil War) vol. 4
This web site has several items regarding the raid, many I couldn't find a way to access
http://www.mdgorman.com/Written_Accounts...tricks.htm

An interesting point in BettyO's post #3
"Though the papers have long been disputed, recent scholarship by historians including Stephen W. Sears and Edward Steers, Jr. has tended to favor their authenticity, though few who believe in their authenticity contend they were written by anyone other than Dahlgren himself."

Did you see what I posted after you on our original thread on Booth's mental health related to the Raid? You switched categories and threw me off!!!

The Dahlgren question boils down (IMO) to 1. Was Dahlgren truly reckless enough to create his own "orders" and convince his troops to follow him? 2. Were Meade and others using the old trick of denial to make their plan go away and relieve the pressure from them?