Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern?

[davg2000]

After Robert was born, the Lincolns left the Globe Tavern in the fall of 1843. And in May of 1844, they moved to their home at 8th and Jackson. Where were they in the meantime? Although it's now a parking lot--think of Joni Mitchell: "Pave paradise, put up a parking lot"--the site is marked. Read Mike Kienzler's article in Sangamon Link: http://sangamoncountyhistory.org/wp/?p=10377.

[Gene C]

Thanks for sharing.

[RJNorton]

Dave, thanks for posting that link. I have Evans' book and agree he says the small house was on Monroe Street. And he includes this drawing:

[Joe Di Cola]

The Sangamon Link article had an editor's note concerning a claim that the doors and windows of the house where the Lincoln's lived between the Globe Tavern and their home at 8th & Jackson came from the Onstott cooper shop could not be confirmed. It could not be confirmed because the Onstott cooper shop was moved to Petersburg in 1840, where it remained until returned to New Salem during the village's reconstruction.

[Anita]

Dave, thanks for posting. Okay, I'm confused. I see no proof that the Lincoln rented the cottage on 214th or Monroe St. Any rental agreements, checks or letters?

[RJNorton]

(04-07-2018 08:40 PM)Anita Wrote:  Dave, thanks for posting. Okay, I'm confused. I see no proof that the Lincoln rented the cottage on 214th or Monroe St. Any rental agreements, checks or letters?

Good question, Anita. Some books say the rent was $100 a year, but I do not know the source for this. Most books mention that the Lincolns stayed there c.November 1843 to May 1844, but I do not specifically recall seeing the proof.

IMO, there are a ton of books that mention this small home, but I do not recall a single book having a footnote that cites a specific source for this information. I once read speculation that the Lincolns rented the property from a man named John Francis Rague, but I do not believe there is solid proof of this.

[Anita]

(04-08-2018 04:24 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(04-07-2018 08:40 PM)Anita Wrote:  Dave, thanks for posting. Okay, I'm confused. I see no proof that the Lincoln rented the cottage on 214th or Monroe St. Any rental agreements, checks or letters?

Good question, Anita. Some books say the rent was $100 a year, but I do not know the source for this. Most books mention that the Lincolns stayed there c.November 1843 to May 1844, but I do not specifically recall seeing the proof.

IMO, there are a ton of books that mention this small home, but I do not recall a single book having a footnote that cites a specific source for this information. I once read speculation that the Lincolns rented the property from a man named John Francis Rague, but I do not believe there is solid proof of this.

Thanks Roger. I read up on Rague here. Quite a character! There's a discussion of the possibility Rague rented to the Lincolns here. See Richard E. Hart pamphlet http://lincolnsspringfield.blogspot.com/...vival.html

[RJNorton]

I am curious about the very first reference to this small home in the Lincoln literature. Possibly if we can find the initial information in a book or article we might discover the source. Right now the oldest book I have that mentions it is the one by W.A. Evans (1932). He says the home was on Monroe Street. I think all the other books I have that mention it say it was located at 214 S. Fourth Street.

I am going to check some earlier works and see if there is a reference prior to 1932. Yesterday I checked Sandburg's Prairie Years (1926), and Sandburg skips this time period completely:

"The Lincoln couple boarded and roomed at $4.00 per * week in the plain Globe Tavern, where their first baby came August 1, 1843, and was named Robert Todd. Soon after, they moved into their own home, bought for $1,500, a story-and-a-half frame house a few blocks from the city center."

[Anita]

It's in my 1928 Beveridge "Abraham Lincoln" Vol. 1 page 363. "Not long after the birth of Robert the Lincolns left the Globe Hotel and moved into a one-story frame house at 214 South 4th Street. Here they remained until May, 1844, when they again moved and for the last time."

No footnote.

[RJNorton]

Thanks, Anita! I wonder if that is the earliest mention...

Author Ralph Gary writes, "When they left the Globe they moved to 214 South Fourth until May 1844. They were probably here when Mary's father visited around Christmas, although there is also evidence that they were still at the Globe."

Ralph Gary does not say what this evidence is; I would be curious if anyone knows. Just where were the Lincolns living when Robert Smith Todd made this 1843 Christmas-time visit?

[Anita]

I agree. Seems like there should be earlier mention. Jean Baker described the cottage on South Fourth having 4 rooms (pg. 103 bio Of Mary Lincoln) and since Mary had a very young Robert to care for, I imagine Robert Smith Todd would be more comfortable at the Edwards home.

Both the NPS site https://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historycu...lhomes.htm and the ALPLM Volunteer manual give the address as 4th Street.

https://www.illinois.gov/alplm/museum/in...0Sites.pdf

[Steve]

William E. Barton mentioned the 214 South 4th Street address in his 1925 biography of Lincoln (without a source):

https://archive.org/stream/lifeofabraham...3/mode/2up

But that's still an over 80 year gap to a still unsourced assertion.

Lincoln contracted to buy his home in January 1844:

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te...oln1%3A345

And it looks like he may have been looking for property to buy/build a house by mid-December 1843:

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te...oln1%3A344

(or at least that's how I interpret Lincoln's words "Have the deed made to me")

According to the Lincoln Log site, Lincoln was travelling the circuit for a good portion of time between August 1843 and December 1843. Does it make sense for the Lincolns to briefly move out of the Globe Tavern, if they're already looking to buy a home soon?

---

Maybe it's possible the lease for the Globe Tavern appartment was up and the owner didn't want to extend the Lincolns' lease a few months if they were going to buy a home shortly anyway?

[RJNorton]

(04-10-2018 05:25 PM)Anita Wrote:  Jean Baker described the cottage on South Fourth having 4 rooms

Catherine Clinton describes our "mystery cottage" as having 3 rooms on p. 68 of her Mary Lincoln biography.

And if it was Rague's "Grecian Cottage" then it was described as having 6 rooms! Go figure!

Yesterday while looking through some books I noted that Katherine Helm's 1928 biography skips the little home completely. She wrote, "From the Globe Tavern Mr. and Mrs. Lincoln went to housekeeping in a little cottage of their own on the corner of Eighth and Jackson Streets."

(04-10-2018 06:33 PM)Steve Wrote:  William E. Barton mentioned the 214 South 4th Street address in his 1925 biography of Lincoln (without a source):

Thanks, Steve. We can now move the earliest mention back 3 years to 1925.

(04-10-2018 06:33 PM)Steve Wrote:  Does it make sense for the Lincolns to briefly move out of the Globe Tavern, if they're already looking to buy a home soon?

I have seen the Glove Tavern sometimes described as a loud place which mainly catered to (mostly male) travelers. Everybody staying there ate at a common table. Perhaps this wasn't the best environment for mother and baby, and Mary wanted to move out?

[STS Lincolnite]

I checked the Hay-Nicolay biography this morning. They skip over the 4th street cottage as well.

Volume 1, p.204:

"They went to live, immediately after their marriage, at a boarding house (1) called 'The Globe,' which was 'very well kept by a widow lady of the name of Beck,' and there their first child was born, who was one day to be Secretary of War and Minister to England, and for whom was reserved the strange experience of standing by the death-bed of two assassinated Presidents. Lincoln afterwards built a comfortable house of wood on the corner of Eighth and Jackson streets where he lived until he removed to the White House."

The (1) refers to a foot note as follows "This house is still standing, opposite St. Paul's Church."

Nothing really new here but another text crossed off the list for earlier reference or original citation listing.

[RJNorton]

Thanks, Scott.

I decided to check Burlingame's Abraham Lincoln: A Life. Burlingame's footnote for the move to the small home on Fourth Street reads as follows:

"George H. Helmle cited in Jacob C. Thompson to Albert J. Beveridge, Springfield, 19 May 1925, Beveridge Papers, Library of Congress, and John E. Vaughn, “A Handful o’ Sorts,” Illinois State Journal
(Springfield), 12 November 1927. W. A. Evans asserted that the Lincolns moved into a house on Monroe Street. Evans, Mrs. Abraham Lincoln, 130. Evans provides a picture of that dwelling (ibid., opposite p.138)."

Once again the year 1925 is mentioned.

Possibly we could find our answer if anyone has access to either the Beveridge Papers or John E. Vaughn's "A Handful o' Sorts."