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Andrew Johnson - Mistress
11-20-2017, 09:30 AM
Post: #61
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(11-20-2017 09:13 AM)JMadonna Wrote:  Besides by the impeachment hearings, sleeping with a hooker would not have affected the outcome. Bribery of Senators is what saved his a--.

I can buy that.
Let me rephrase that Blush

I can understand that.

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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11-20-2017, 11:37 AM
Post: #62
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Here are a couple of links to stories about Sen. Ross and Johnson's acquittal:

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-...ew-johnson


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...ingle.html
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11-20-2017, 03:01 PM
Post: #63
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Its funny but during an impeachment trial a senator can literally hold up a sign that says "This vote for sale" and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
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11-20-2017, 07:12 PM
Post: #64
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
I found a possible candidate for Ella/Nellie Starr in a later records. There was a prostitute of the same name and age living in Baxter Springs, Kansas in 1870. Although the census record lists a different birthplace Canada instead of Maryland and there may be a younger sister or relative named Carrie Starr at the Baxter Springs brothel which as far as I can tell isn't mentioned in any of the accounts of Booth's Ella Starr. Also don't forget the 1883 newspaper accounts of the fight over Ella's brother estate seem to imply Ella was living in Maryland or New York.

So I'm not sure these two Nellie Starrs are the same person but I thought I'd share what I've found to see what your thoughts are.

Baxter Springs, Kansas Nellie Starr 1870 census:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCJJ-HDG

Baxter Springs Museum webpage mentioning Nellie Starr (scroll down to "THE MURDERS OF OUR TWO MARSHALS"):

http://www.baxterspringsmuseum.org/Cowtown.html

18 November 1870 Emporia Weekly news blurb mentioning Baxter Springs Starr:
   
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01-21-2018, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 09:11 PM by Jenny.)
Post: #65
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(11-20-2017 07:12 PM)Steve Wrote:  I found a possible candidate for Ella/Nellie Starr in a later records. There was a prostitute of the same name and age living in Baxter Springs, Kansas in 1870. Although the census record lists a different birthplace Canada instead of Maryland and there may be a younger sister or relative named Carrie Starr at the Baxter Springs brothel which as far as I can tell isn't mentioned in any of the accounts of Booth's Ella Starr. Also don't forget the 1883 newspaper accounts of the fight over Ella's brother estate seem to imply Ella was living in Maryland or New York.

So I'm not sure these two Nellie Starrs are the same person but I thought I'd share what I've found to see what your thoughts are.

Baxter Springs, Kansas Nellie Starr 1870 census:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCJJ-HDG

Baxter Springs Museum webpage mentioning Nellie Starr (scroll down to "THE MURDERS OF OUR TWO MARSHALS"):

http://www.baxterspringsmuseum.org/Cowtown.html

18 November 1870 Emporia Weekly news blurb mentioning Baxter Springs Starr:


Hi Steve,

I have honestly gone through about 10 to 15 possible marriages that involve different women named Nellie/Ella Starr/Turner (and every combination of the sort), mostly around the Maryland/DC/Virginia/NY/Pennsylvania area. It's been impossible to trace most of them while several have just plain ended up clearly not being Booth's Ella. Trying to find her through brothel records is even *worse* because there were a LOT of prostitutes all over the country with her name or variations of it in the late 1800s. At least the marriage records have the names of potential husbands and families to look into because brothel/police records have next to nothing.

Searching for what happened to her is one of the single most frustrating things I've attempted; I can absolutely see why even Mr. Hall had trouble with her! So I have to say that I am skeptical of her being the Nellie Starr from Canada in Kansas. Wink PLUS even the article says that this Nellie Starr was formerly from Kansas City while Booth's girl was born in Baltimore.

Quote:From what I've read Ella was a half-sister to John and Mollie, sharing the same mother but having an unknown father after the elder Starr's death. Now I suppose the half-sister could be a daughter of the elder Starr's first marriage, but what if Mollie just told the reporter that Ella was living in New York to try and send the reporters on a snipe hunt? Some of the other details she gave the reporter, like Ella actually marrying Booth (untrue) or having another deceased sister who had been married to a Senator (dubious) would suggest that possibility.

You are correct. It would seem that John and Mary Jane/Mollie were the children of Ellen Flin Starr and a John Starr Sr. who died in 1838 while Ella's father is unknown... since Mrs. Starr was a prostitute herself (she's the one who actually established the house in DC in 1862), it wouldn't surprise me if Ella was an accident from a client.

That family appeared to have had a lot of issues. During the "Starr Family Bruhaha" as I call it, John W. Starr's widow, Sarah, even claims at one point that elderly Mrs. Starr was her deceased husband's step-mother, not his real mother. And of course neither Sarah or Mrs. Starr would acknowledge Mary Jane being related at all despite a clear physical resemblance (apparently no one in the court room who knew both brother and sister could deny it) and records of her being a Starr by blood.

In her interviews regarding her claim to her brother's money, Mary Jane Treakle/Turner was full of it imo. While it isn't impossible Ella was living in New York as stated, Mary Jane is an extremely questionable source at best, just as you surmised. An uncle worth "$9,000,000"? Booth married her sister? An unknown sister who was married to a Senator? Ugh.

Anyway, the absolute last piece of evidence regarding Ella's life at this time the cemetery plot her mother bought for her in 1888. Said plot wasn't used by her (an unrelated gentleman was buried in it in the 1940s when it was obvious no one was going to use it).

Now in the October 5th 1902 edition of The Richmond Dispatch, there is a mention of her living as "an honest woman" and "the honest wife of an honest mechanic" in Maryland... but unfortunately the article is about David E. George and is full of nonsense so I highly doubt it's accurate despite the author claiming to have "a highly credible source." I even tried to follow up on that improbable lead, but nothing has come of it.

It's almost as though she wanted to disappear after the assassination; if that was her intent, she has succeed so far. Dr. Terry Alford claims to have found a marriage for her that he can prove is actually her, but I'll believe it when it see the proof (no offense to him).

"Right or wrong, God judge me, not man."
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01-23-2018, 03:37 PM
Post: #66
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Jenny,
Thanks for the information! I have a quick question, how do we know the plot bought by her mother in 1888 was specifically set aside for her? Is there documentation left by Ella's mother that it was specifically reserved for Ella? I ask because her name was Ellen and I just want to make sure that pre-bought grave plots aren't being confused. Also, do you know the name of the gentleman who was buried in the plot in the 1940's. I was thinking of checking to be sure that he wasn't some cousin of the Starrs.
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01-23-2018, 08:54 PM
Post: #67
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Jenny mentioned Dr. Alford's findings relative to Ella's marriage. Before his Fortune's Fool was published, all he would tell me is that "she married well." After the book came out, I found no mention of Ella in later years, so I asked again -- I am still waiting for an answer...
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01-25-2018, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 01-25-2018 04:16 PM by Jenny.)
Post: #68
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Yes. On the back of the plot deed, Mrs. Starr writes,
"January 1888
I leave this Deed of lot in this cemetery to my daughter Ellie.
- Ellen Starr"

I do know his name. Let me get back to you on that - can't think of it off the top of my head.

Okay, Steve, the name of the man buried in the plot deeded to Ella is named James Edmonston. He was buried there on May 29, 1943 and, according to Mr. Hall's notes after contacting the cemetery, is not related to either the Starrs or the Flynns (Mrs. Starr's family).

Apparently the deceased's wife bought the plot from "a distance Flynn kin who had the deed and said the lot would never be used otherwise." The right of burial was sold for $200.

(01-23-2018 08:54 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Jenny mentioned Dr. Alford's findings relative to Ella's marriage. Before his Fortune's Fool was published, all he would tell me is that "she married well." After the book came out, I found no mention of Ella in later years, so I asked again -- I am still waiting for an answer...

Maybe his findings turned out to be wrong. I don't know. It's really hard for me to imagine a prostitute who was a known lover of Booth could have "married well." Maybe he can prove me wrong, but I don't see it coming.

"Right or wrong, God judge me, not man."
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01-25-2018, 07:23 PM
Post: #69
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(01-25-2018 03:48 PM)Jenny Wrote:  Yes. On the back of the plot deed, Mrs. Starr writes,
"January 1888
I leave this Deed of lot in this cemetery to my daughter Ellie.
- Ellen Starr"

I do know his name. Let me get back to you on that - can't think of it off the top of my head.

Okay, Steve, the name of the man buried in the plot deeded to Ella is named James Edmonston. He was buried there on May 29, 1943 and, according to Mr. Hall's notes after contacting the cemetery, is not related to either the Starrs or the Flynns (Mrs. Starr's family).

Apparently the deceased's wife bought the plot from "a distance Flynn kin who had the deed and said the lot would never be used otherwise." The right of burial was sold for $200.

(01-23-2018 08:54 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Jenny mentioned Dr. Alford's findings relative to Ella's marriage. Before his Fortune's Fool was published, all he would tell me is that "she married well." After the book came out, I found no mention of Ella in later years, so I asked again -- I am still waiting for an answer...

Maybe his findings turned out to be wrong. I don't know. It's really hard for me to imagine a prostitute who was a known lover of Booth could have "married well." Maybe he can prove me wrong, but I don't see it coming.

It could happen, if she found a man who was taken by her charms and who didn't much care about family or public opinion.
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01-25-2018, 07:41 PM
Post: #70
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
Jenny,
Thanks for a transcription of plot deed. It's very helpful. It tells us that Ella's mother believed she was still alive in January 1888. Unfortunately, we don't know whether they were still in regular contact at that time.

I looked into Edmonston and he was a Coast Guard Lt. who seems to have died unexpectedly, necessitating his wife to look for a burial plot in his hometown. I suppose it would be too much to hope for that the name of the Flynn family member who sold the plot survived.

I've attached a copy of Edmonston's death certificate in case anybody is interested or would like to do an in-depth genealogical search of his background just to be sure themselves.
   
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01-26-2018, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 10:32 AM by L Verge.)
Post: #71
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(01-25-2018 07:41 PM)Steve Wrote:  Jenny,
Thanks for a transcription of plot deed. It's very helpful. It tells us that Ella's mother believed she was still alive in January 1888. Unfortunately, we don't know whether they were still in regular contact at that time.

I looked into Edmonston and he was a Coast Guard Lt. who seems to have died unexpectedly, necessitating his wife to look for a burial plot in his hometown. I suppose it would be too much to hope for that the name of the Flynn family member who sold the plot survived.

I've attached a copy of Edmonston's death certificate in case anybody is interested or would like to do an in-depth genealogical search of his background just to be sure themselves.

Too bad that the certificate doesn't mention the town where Lt. Edmonston was born. There is an area near the University of Maryland that is known as Edmonston and a road is named that. Doesn't make any difference to our story, perhaps, but who knows.

BTW: I may be wrongly assuming that the cemetery plot was in DC, but all of a sudden, it seemed more logical to me - given Ella's history - that it was in Baltimore. Does anyone know where it really was?
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01-26-2018, 02:30 PM
Post: #72
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(01-25-2018 07:41 PM)Steve Wrote:  I looked into Edmonston and he was a Coast Guard Lt. who seems to have died unexpectedly, necessitating his wife to look for a burial plot in his hometown. I suppose it would be too much to hope for that the name of the Flynn family member who sold the plot survived.

Sounds like a serviceman who died in the battle of the Atlantic.
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01-27-2018, 07:51 PM
Post: #73
RE: Andrew Johnson - Mistress
(01-26-2018 10:25 AM)L Verge Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 07:41 PM)Steve Wrote:  Jenny,
Thanks for a transcription of plot deed. It's very helpful. It tells us that Ella's mother believed she was still alive in January 1888. Unfortunately, we don't know whether they were still in regular contact at that time.

I looked into Edmonston and he was a Coast Guard Lt. who seems to have died unexpectedly, necessitating his wife to look for a burial plot in his hometown. I suppose it would be too much to hope for that the name of the Flynn family member who sold the plot survived.

I've attached a copy of Edmonston's death certificate in case anybody is interested or would like to do an in-depth genealogical search of his background just to be sure themselves.

Too bad that the certificate doesn't mention the town where Lt. Edmonston was born. There is an area near the University of Maryland that is known as Edmonston and a road is named that. Doesn't make any difference to our story, perhaps, but who knows.

BTW: I may be wrongly assuming that the cemetery plot was in DC, but all of a sudden, it seemed more logical to me - given Ella's history - that it was in Baltimore. Does anyone know where it really was?


Yes, ma'am! The plot is in New Cathedral Cemetery in Baltimore, same place John Surratt is buried. Mrs. Starr is buried there with several family members she had exhumed from the Old Cathedral Cemetery in 1887, including her husband and two Flynn relatives (probably her parents). She's in Lot 469, Section H, according to Mr. Hall's records.

Steve, thank you for the information on Lt. Edmonston!

"Right or wrong, God judge me, not man."
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