Quick questions about courtroom and charge

[Marty L.]

1. What's the most reliable evidence of who drafted the charges before the commission--Stanton? Holt? Others?

2. What was the size of the courtroom? I've seen it described as 40X50 and as 40X27.

Thanks in advance.

[BettyO]

I give tours in the Courtroom and according to the updated plans (which is consistant with the original as far as I know) the scale is 39' 3" long from stairwell to backwall (prisoner's dock) and approximately 27' 3 1/4" wide, measuring from windows along side courtroom area to the back room where Mrs Surratt retired and Powell was examined.

Our next "Open House" will be on November 4, 2017 from 9 AM to 4 PM.

[L Verge]

Marty, I am trying to make an educated guess on this. I suspect it was a group effort, and I would include Johnson having some input also since his name would be on all the declaratory (is that the right word?) statements at the beginning of the process for establishing the military tribunal.

Saying that (and having no idea what I'm talking about), wouldn't there be a standard format for stating the charges and specifications? Wouldn't they have also carefully considered making things accurate to uphold their stance on having a military court -- which was pretty daring on their part (but smart, imo)?

[wpbinzel]

I always assumed that Judge Advocate General Joseph Holt drafted the charges against the conspirators, but I found the original draft of the charges in the handwriting of Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton in Holt's Papers in the Library of Congress, so the answer to Question #1 is Stanton.

(I am challenged by the process to post an image, but will send the first page to Roger with a request to post it.)

[Marty L.]

Thanks, everyone. I, too, have a draft of the charges (an earlier one, I believe), in Stanton's apparent handwriting. So it's likely he had something to do with it. I'd be shocked if Holt were not involved, too. Joshua Kastenberg has written that Winthrop and Hosmer were also involved in the drafting, although he doesn't cite anything in particular. (And no, Laurie, the charges in this case were anything but standard-issue! There was no precedent for them, and no one understood exactly what was charged, or what the source of law was for the charges. It was an embarrassment, really. But that was par for the course in the War Department's military commissions, which were in effect making it up as they went.)

If anyone has further information about how the charges were drafted, or the size of the courtroom--or, for that matter, about who was responsible for choosing the members of the commission--I'd be very grateful, thanks.

[L Verge]

Marty - This link, http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/artic...commision/ claims that Holt (probably with the assistance of Stanton) chose the commission members, but it also says that Johnson appointed them. I am assuming that Holt/Stanton did the selection and Johnson did the formal approval and official announcement?

Have you consulted The Trial book produced by a team of us with Ed Steers at the helm (University Press of Kentucky, 2003)? Dr. Thomas Reed Turner did a chapter specifically on the court, if I remember correctly.

P.S. I think you can trust Betty's dimensions of the courtroom. She worked with the military and their contractors on researching and renovating the current one that is open quarterly to the public.

[Marty L.]

Thanks, Laurie. Yes, Col. Borch reports that "Holt (probably in concert with Stanton) personally selected the nine Union officers"--I'm just trying to find some documentary evidence of that assertion, which is often made. (The Turner chapter of the Trial does not say anything about it.)

As for the courtroom, I'm confident Betty is correct about the dimensions of the current re-creation--but is there reliable evidence anywhere that those were the dimensions in 1865? (It does seem roughly consistent with the "artist's renderings" that I've seen.)

[RJNorton]

In American Brutus, Mike Kauffman writes, "Andrew Johnson's order convening a military commission did not go into specifics, so when General E.D. Townsend returned from Springfield, he selected the nine officers who would serve on the panel." (p. 337)

[Marty L.]

Thanks, Roger. Yes, I'm aware of Kauffman's assertion, too -- indeed, that's one of the things that prompted me to write here: A great number of accounts attribute the charges, and the appointments to the commission, to various officers, but I've yet to see any primary documents resolving which of these accounts is correct. (The formal detailing of the members to the commission was effected by Assistant Adjutant-General W.A. Nichols; but I don't think he was the one who chose the officers.)

[L Verge]

(09-28-2017 11:52 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  In American Brutus, Mike Kauffman writes, "Andrew Johnson's order convening a military commission did not go into specifics, so when General E.D. Townsend returned from Springfield, he selected the nine officers who would serve on the panel." (p. 337)

I saw that too, but chose not to post it since it has no citation. I know that Townsend was high on the list of military involved in this, but it just seems that the choosing of the commission in such an important case would need THE higher-ups making the decision.

[BettyO]

Quote:P.S. I think you can trust Betty's dimensions of the courtroom. She worked with the military and their contractors on researching and renovating the current one that is open quarterly to the public.

Thanks, Laurie -

I have original Architect's drawings -

[L Verge]

(09-28-2017 10:03 AM)Marty L. Wrote:  Thanks, Laurie. Yes, Col. Borch reports that "Holt (probably in concert with Stanton) personally selected the nine Union officers"--I'm just trying to find some documentary evidence of that assertion, which is often made. (The Turner chapter of the Trial does not say anything about it.)

As for the courtroom, I'm confident Betty is correct about the dimensions of the current re-creation--but is there reliable evidence anywhere that those were the dimensions in 1865? (It does seem roughly consistent with the "artist's renderings" that I've seen.)

Our contact with the "courtroom" at McNair is a very nice lady named Leah (Betty, please supply the last name and a contact number). She may not have the full restoration details in her desk drawer, but I bet she can put you in touch with the restoration architect(s) or others who did the work.

If they went to bare bones behind the wall, they should be able to give dimensions based on aged wood. A Booth escape stop that is undergoing restoration (Rich Hill, home of Samuel Cox) was recently determined to be decades older than originally thought once the true skeleton of the structure was uncovered.

[RJNorton]

(09-28-2017 12:44 PM)Marty L. Wrote:  (The formal detailing of the members to the commission was effected by Assistant Adjutant-General W.A. Nichols; but I don't think he was the one who chose the officers.)

(09-28-2017 12:50 PM)L Verge Wrote:  but it just seems that the choosing of the commission in such an important case would need THE higher-ups making the decision.

Theodore Roscoe agreed. In The Web of Conspiracy he wrote, "The Assistant Adjutant General lost no time in appointing the "nine competent military officers to serve as a Commission." There seems to have been no delay over the question of "competence." In fact, the celerity with which the Assistant Adjutant General selected the nine would almost lead one to suspect that the nine had already been hand-picked by someone a little higher up than an Assistant Adjutant General. It seems apparent that the selective hand belonged to Edwin M. Stanton."

[L Verge]

(09-28-2017 02:36 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 12:44 PM)Marty L. Wrote:  (The formal detailing of the members to the commission was effected by Assistant Adjutant-General W.A. Nichols; but I don't think he was the one who chose the officers.)

(09-28-2017 12:50 PM)L Verge Wrote:  but it just seems that the choosing of the commission in such an important case would need THE higher-ups making the decision.

Theodore Roscoe agreed. In The Web of Conspiracy he wrote, "The Assistant Adjutant General lost no time in appointing the "nine competent military officers to serve as a Commission." There seems to have been no delay over the question of "competence." In fact, the celerity with which the Assistant Adjutant General selected the nine would almost lead one to suspect that the nine had already been hand-picked by someone a little higher up than an Assistant Adjutant General. It seems apparent that the selective hand belonged to Edwin M. Stanton."

If Roscoe had only named someone! The Assistant Adjutant General at that time was Townsend, I believe, but I agree that he was Stanton's handy man.

[Marty L.]

The Assistant Adjutant-General who formally designated the officers was W.A. Nichols (see Pitman at 17), but I doubt it was all his doing.