Charlottesville

[L Verge]

Gene - thank you for those additional, excellent points on the periods when these statues grew in prominence.

And thank you also for your last paragraph... I have found in my 73 years of life that those who talk the loudest often do the least amount of work.

[JMadonna]

As one wag said - We have blacks, who were never slaves & whites who were never Nazis, protesting statues that were erected by Democrats - and somehow its all Trump's fault.

[ELCore]

(08-19-2017 01:54 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  On the other hand, when the Chronicle newspaper in Washington had the courage to speak well of "Stonewall" Jackson, accidentally shot, as a brave soldier, however mistaken as an American, Lincoln wrote to the editor: "I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause, was nevertheless a gallant man. Let us forget his sins over a fresh-made grave."

What's the source for the Chronicle quotation? It does not seem to be in the Collected Works. Thank you.

[My Name Is Kate]

The chart in the Boothiebarn article that Gene refers to in post #45 was compiled by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is itself a hate group.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Southern_Po...Law_Center

http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/17/12-w...mongering/

https://capitalresearch.org/article/sout...ured-hate/

[David Lockmiller]

(08-20-2017 09:58 PM)ELCore Wrote:  

(08-19-2017 01:54 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  On the other hand, when the Chronicle newspaper in Washington had the courage to speak well of "Stonewall" Jackson, accidentally shot, as a brave soldier, however mistaken as an American, Lincoln wrote to the editor: "I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause, was nevertheless a gallant man. Let us forget his sins over a fresh-made grave."

What's the source for the Chronicle quotation? It does not seem to be in the Collected Works. Thank you.

I quoted the story in my previous post from Emanuel Hertz’s book “Lincoln Talks, A Biography in Anecdote" at page 567. Incidentally, I left out the attribution in Hertz's book to this story which is "Henry L. Williams, quoting the Washington Chronicle"

In response to your request for a source of the quote, I utilized Google Books and entered the phrase “I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause” and among the returns were two sources that I thought that you might prefer as being more acceptable.

The first book titled “The History of Abraham Lincoln, and the Overthrow of Slavery” is by Isaac Newton Arnold and the relevant portion of that text regarding the Battle of Chancellorville at page 413 reads as follows:

The loss of the rebels was less; but among the casualties was the mortal wound received by Stonewall Jackson, the most accomplished soldier in the rebel army. It was in the nature of Mr. Lincoln to do full justice to his enemies. The heroism of Stonewall Jackson, rebel as he was, touched him, and he said to one who spoke kindly of him,* “I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause, was nevertheless a gallant man. Let us forget his sins over his fresh-made grave.”
* Colonel J. W. Forney, of the Washington Chronicle

The second reference I found to this story was in F. B. Carpenter’s book “The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months at the White House at pages 267 and 268. On page 267, Mr. Carpenter introduces a conversation he had with Colonel Forney in which the latter conveyed a few Lincoln stories.

The second of these stories appears fully on page 268 and reads as follows in the words of Colonel Forney:

“To show the magnanimity of Mr. Lincoln, I may mention that on one occasion, when an editorial article appeared in my newspaper, the Washington ‘Chronicle,’ speaking well of the bravery and the mistaken sincerity of Stonewall Jackson, the news of whose death had been just received, the President wrote me a letter thanking me warmly for speaking kindly of a fallen foe. These were his words:--

’I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause, was nevertheless a gallant man. Let us forget his sins over his fresh-made grave.’”

[RJNorton]

Additionally, Michael Burlingame includes the quote in Abraham Lincoln: A Life. Burlingame's footnote reads:

"Reminiscences of John W. Forney in a lecture delivered in November 1865 before the Ladies’ Soldiers’ Aid Society of Weldon, Pennsylvania, New York Evening Post, 30 November 1865."

[David Lockmiller]

(08-21-2017 04:02 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Additionally, Michael Burlingame includes the quote in Abraham Lincoln: A Life. Burlingame's footnote reads:

"Reminiscences of John W. Forney in a lecture delivered in November 1865 before the Ladies’ Soldiers’ Aid Society of Weldon, Pennsylvania, New York Evening Post, 30 November 1865."

Thanks for that information, Roger. I thought about checking that source as well but I did not do so.

I was curious as to the source of information for the entry in Arnold's book. It was not in the San Francisco Library catalog. So, I checked on Abebooks. I found: History of Abraham Lincoln, and the Overthrow of Slavery. By ARNOLD, Isaac N. and Publication Date: 1866. Asking price -- $275.

Carpenter's book was published in 1879. So, obviously, Carpenter's book was not Arnold's source of information.

[RJNorton]

(08-21-2017 12:37 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  The second of these stories appears fully on page 268 and reads as follows in the words of Colonel Forney:

“To show the magnanimity of Mr. Lincoln, I may mention that on one occasion, when an editorial article appeared in my newspaper, the Washington ‘Chronicle,’ speaking well of the bravery and the mistaken sincerity of Stonewall Jackson, the news of whose death had been just received, the President wrote me a letter thanking me warmly for speaking kindly of a fallen foe. These were his words:--

’I honor you for your generosity to one who, though contending against us in a guilty cause, was nevertheless a gallant man. Let us forget his sins over his fresh-made grave.’”

David, I was curious to see if Abraham Lincoln made any other comments about Stonewall Jackson, and I found one. It's in Elizabeth Keckly's book. She wrote that Lincoln said:

"He is a brave, honest Presbyterian soldier; what a pity that we should have to fight such a gallant fellow! If we only had such a man to lead the armies of the North, the country would not be appalled with so many disasters."

(I checked the Fehrenbachers' book, and they give "C's" and "D's" to all the Keckly quotes they include. The one I quoted above is given a "D.")

[Joe Di Cola]

Since Dave Taylor's blog comments only appeared as an attachment on this site, I hope he gets to read this. I want to thank him for his erudite, courageous, and measured response to the demagoguery and nonsense that I have heard and read in recent days. Dave, I think you made the right choice in preventing responses directly onto your blog since, sadly, you would have been savaged--and you don't deserve that.
I rarely, if ever, participate but usually enjoy reading the symposium posts; now I am done.

[Linda Anderson]

(08-21-2017 12:14 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote:  Since Dave Taylor's blog comments only appeared as an attachment on this site, I hope he gets to read this. I want to thank him for his erudite, courageous, and measured response to the demagoguery and nonsense that I have heard and read in recent days. Dave, I think you made the right choice in preventing responses directly onto your blog since, sadly, you would have been savaged--and you don't deserve that.
I rarely, if ever, participate but usually enjoy reading the symposium posts; now I am done.

I agree 100% with Joe Di Cola. Roger, please reconsider what links you allow to be posted on this forum. There's always been differences of opinion but things changed on August 12th. Words inflame and Heather Heyer has died.

[Rick Smith]

(08-21-2017 12:44 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 12:14 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote:  Since Dave Taylor's blog comments only appeared as an attachment on this site, I hope he gets to read this. I want to thank him for his erudite, courageous, and measured response to the demagoguery and nonsense that I have heard and read in recent days. Dave, I think you made the right choice in preventing responses directly onto your blog since, sadly, you would have been savaged--and you don't deserve that.
I rarely, if ever, participate but usually enjoy reading the symposium posts; now I am done.

I agree 100% with Joe Di Cola. Roger, please reconsider what links you allow to be posted on this forum. There's always been differences of opinion but things changed on August 12th. Words inflame and Heather Heyer has died.

Do you mean the links to Dave's site?

[Linda Anderson]

(08-21-2017 01:30 PM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 12:44 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 12:14 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote:  Since Dave Taylor's blog comments only appeared as an attachment on this site, I hope he gets to read this. I want to thank him for his erudite, courageous, and measured response to the demagoguery and nonsense that I have heard and read in recent days. Dave, I think you made the right choice in preventing responses directly onto your blog since, sadly, you would have been savaged--and you don't deserve that.
I rarely, if ever, participate but usually enjoy reading the symposium posts; now I am done.

I agree 100% with Joe Di Cola. Roger, please reconsider what links you allow to be posted on this forum. There's always been differences of opinion but things changed on August 12th. Words inflame and Heather Heyer has died.

Do you mean the links to Dave's site?

No, I did not mean the links to Dave's site.

[brtmchl]

I would just like to point out that today was a great day. I watched the coverage from all over the US covering the Total Eclipse. Huge crowds of people from all over the country together and happy, cheering in unison as the moon passed in front of the sun. Partying for a few minutes as day turned to dusk. This is how the majority lives everyday.

[L Verge]

(08-21-2017 01:58 PM)brtmchl Wrote:  I would just like to point out that today was a great day. I watched the coverage from all over the US covering the Total Eclipse. Huge crowds of people from all over the country together and happy, cheering in unison as the moon passed in front of the sun. Partying for a few minutes as day turned to dusk. This is how the majority lives everyday.

Amen. And good things could be accomplished in today's world if those who care about history and the lessons it teaches would utilize that educational opportunity to work towards a better world rather than figuring out destructive ways to continue whining about past problems.

We have made significant strides in just sixty years (those of us born before 1950 know that quite well), and I feel that we need to embrace that and use it to constructively bring people together to work on solutions for problems that still exist.

We will never live in a perfect world, but we can try our darnedest to work on what matters -- and tearing down inanimate objects just doesn't do it for me.

[My Name Is Kate]

What in the world does Heather Heyer's death have to do with any links on this forum? When Steve Scalise came within an eyelash of being murdered by a madman with mainstream media-fueled hatred, and several others were injured at a peaceful, charity baseball game, where was the outrage on the part of some people?

I have not seen anyone on this forum savaging the boothiebarn article or its author, unless by "savaging" you mean "disagreeing with".

I don't have strong feelings about the Confederate statues. If they are removed after being put to a vote by the constituents of the areas where the statues are, that is fine with me.