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Pamela · 08-21-2015, 01:38 PM

Has anyone seen an advertisement for Surratt's Rockville and NY lectures? I read the one for the DC lecture, which was cancelled, and one of the headlines was "His life among the Papal Zouaves". He made no mention of the Zouaves or any of his time in Europe in the Rockville lecture, except to say, "...I concluded to seek asylum in foreign lands." John's cliff leap was known to the public and I would have thought he would have included it as part of his "thrilling" adventures. Lipman was in the audience in NY lecture, and said in the newspaper article that, "....the most curious part of the story is, that when I attended a lecture he gave in this city in 1870, he singled me out among the audience and embraced me with gratitude."

John Fazio · 08-24-2015, 11:19 AM

(08-21-2015 01:38 PM)Pamela Wrote: Has anyone seen an advertisement for Surratt's Rockville and NY lectures? I read the one for the DC lecture, which was cancelled, and one of the headlines was "His life among the Papal Zouaves". He made no mention of the Zouaves or any of his time in Europe in the Rockville lecture, except to say, "...I concluded to seek asylum in foreign lands." John's cliff leap was known to the public and I would have thought he would have included it as part of his "thrilling" adventures. Lipman was in the audience in NY lecture, and said in the newspaper article that, "....the most curious part of the story is, that when I attended a lecture he gave in this city in 1870, he singled me out among the audience and embraced me with gratitude."

Pamela:

An interesting observation. Of course, Lipman's attendance at Surratt's lecture in New York comes from Lipman. If one is disinclined to believe Lipman, then this too, obviously, becomes suspect. As you know, I am one of those incllined to believe him. Therefore, I accept this item as true too. And it all seems to fit quite well, i .e. we now know with certainty that Lipman and Surratt served in the Papal Zouaves in Italy at the same time; that Lipman gave an account of Surratt's escape that is very different from the orignal account given by Surratt's Zouave "captors" to their superiors; that Lipman was in the audience at the New York lecture; that for this reason, Surratt could not very well speak of the spectacular leap version of his escape (which had already been changed twice anyway); that he therefore said nothing about his escape, at a time and in circumstances that were conducive to his addressing the matter; and that he singled out Lipman at the end of the lecture to express his gratitude. For what? For helping him escape! What else?

John

RJNorton · 08-24-2015, 11:51 AM

Unlike the Rockville lecture I have never seen the text of John Surratt's New York lecture. Here is a story on Surratt's NY lecture that was in the New York Times:

John Fazio · 08-24-2015, 12:11 PM

(08-24-2015 11:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Unlike the Rockville lecture I have never seen the text of John Surratt's New York lecture. Here is a story on Surratt's NY lecture that was in the New York Times:

Roger:

Thanks. A very interesting piece.

John

RobertLC · 08-24-2015, 04:54 PM

Roger,

Thanks for posting.

Like you, I have never seen any text about his NY lecture.

This is excellent.

Bob

Pamela · 08-24-2015, 08:52 PM

Thanks, Roger, that's fascinating and a great find. What was going on with Surratt , again not defending his mother and this time calling himself a victim?

RJNorton · 08-25-2015, 04:35 AM

Thanks John, Bob, and Pam.

Pam, I have also read that quote of Weichmann's. Very moving! I read that as Tad said this to Weichmann he put his arms around Weichmann and kissed him on the cheek. Although this happened during the John Surratt trial, Tad also attended a day of the conspiracy trial in 1865.

RJNorton · 10-23-2015, 04:05 AM

Yesterday I received an email from the grandson of Phillip Hanson Hiss. I wrote back and asked if I could have his permission to post his message. He kindly said yes. Many thanks to Richard O. Ames Brown for this contribution to the forum:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Phillip Hanson Hiss existed and was a bona fide serous journalist

Dear Mr Norton,

On a search on Lincoln I came across your website, and on it discussions of the article by Phillip Hanson Hiss.

The name Phillip Hanson was used (and is to this day) in successive generations in the Hiss family, and this must be born in mind when researching the name. However the grave In Greenmount Cemetery Baltimore identified by one of your corespondents is in fact that of the Phillip Hanson Hiss in question. I know the grave as it is among those of the Hiss and Ames families - my ancestors.

Phillip Hanson Hiss - the writer of the article on Lincoln - did exist, and was a lawyer by training (a graduate of Johns Hopkins). He and his brother had owned a manufacturing business, and after his family had lost its money in a lawsuit over a will, he worked as a writer and journalist.

There was at the time of his death much speculation about it, as he came from a very prominent Baltimore family. It had owned property in Cincinnati and I guess that could be why he was working there.

There were numerous lurid and contradictory accounts of his death (some mentioned on your website), but most cite no reliable sources.

Following his death, the account read as evidence in court was that he had left his office in the very early hours of the morning (in winter), and was found dead on the foreshore of the river. His hat and his coat were found at different places in the street along the route between his office and the river.

In court, the explanation given by the police was that he was trying a short-cut home and in the cold and without his coat he had died of a heart-attack.

At the time of his death he was working for the Cincinnati Enquirer. His colleagues there testified that he was working in his office late as he was near completion of his research exposing large-scale police corruption. They said that they were in no doubt that he was killed by the police.

The court found in favor of the police version and explanation.

I have researched the story very fully because I am his grandson, and my account comes from sources published at around the time of his death.

Richard O. Ames Brown

L Verge · 10-23-2015, 08:37 AM

Great information. Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Susan Higginbotham · (This post was last modified: 10-23-2015 09:12 AM by Susan Higginbotham.)

Sad story. I think that sometimes we forget just how close to living memory the players in this story are.

L Verge · 10-23-2015, 10:40 AM

I agree, Susan. I'm finding that the younger generations, especially, are flabbergasted that some of us have close ancestors who were living during the Civil War era.

For example, I have written a chapter on Mrs. Surratt that will appear in a new book in 2016 (the work of a group of us nuts to be entitled The Lincoln Assassination Riddle). We received our chapters for copy editing yesterday, and I'm betting that the publisher's editor is between the age of 21 and 30! In my chapter, I mention that David Herold spent the night of April 13 with my great-grandparents and that Mrs. Surratt and her brother were acquaintances of my great-grandfather. This editor wanted me to verify that I actually had great-grandparents who were alive in 1865! I even went so far as to tell her that every one of my grandparents was born in the 1860s or 70s. And no, I'm not older than dirt, yet.

While working on replying to her editing changes, however, I came to the realization that I was going to have a stroke with all the changes that have been made in publishing styles since I minored in English decades ago. My professors would have had a red-pen field day with what she had changed.

Jim Page · 10-23-2015, 10:47 AM

Laurie, you are so right. Working, as I do, as the senior editor at a large health-care non-profit, I see stuff daily that leaves me shaking my head. Unfortunately, it won't ever get any better.

When I have folks with a master's degree asking me if the names of the months need to be capitalized in their copy, or, as happened yesterday, a "subject matter expert" spends 20 minutes trying to convince me that she knows for certain that "alot" is one word, I just try to maintain my composure and not respond in a snarky manner.

My wife and I had a discussion about this issue last night, and she thinks that using mobile devices with their cute little abbreviations and such isn't helping, either!

--Jim

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 10-23-2015 11:09 AM by Gene C.)

I've noticed that many people graduating with a college degree in various subjects don't always have the quality of education we would be led to expect them to have.
There are many reasons for this, the predominant one being (sorry I had to stop. My young editor felt my answer might possibly offend and hurt the feelings of recent graduates.)
Undecided

Jim Page · 10-23-2015, 11:14 AM

Oh, Gene. Thank goodness your young editor is in place to protect those delicate flowers!

--Jim

John Fazio · 10-23-2015, 06:08 PM

(10-23-2015 04:05 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Yesterday I received an email from the grandson of Phillip Hanson Hiss. I wrote back and asked if I could have his permission to post his message. He kindly said yes. Many thanks to Richard O. Ames Brown for this contribution to the forum:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Phillip Hanson Hiss existed and was a bona fide serous journalist

Dear Mr Norton,

On a search on Lincoln I came across your website, and on it discussions of the article by Phillip Hanson Hiss.

The name Phillip Hanson was used (and is to this day) in successive generations in the Hiss family, and this must be born in mind when researching the name. However the grave In Greenmount Cemetery Baltimore identified by one of your corespondents is in fact that of the Phillip Hanson Hiss in question. I know the grave as it is among those of the Hiss and Ames families - my ancestors.

Phillip Hanson Hiss - the writer of the article on Lincoln - did exist, and was a lawyer by training (a graduate of Johns Hopkins). He and his brother had owned a manufacturing business, and after his family had lost its money in a lawsuit over a will, he worked as a writer and journalist.

There was at the time of his death much speculation about it, as he came from a very prominent Baltimore family. It had owned property in Cincinnati and I guess that could be why he was working there.

There were numerous lurid and contradictory accounts of his death (some mentioned on your website), but most cite no reliable sources.

Following his death, the account read as evidence in court was that he had left his office in the very early hours of the morning (in winter), and was found dead on the foreshore of the river. His hat and his coat were found at different places in the street along the route between his office and the river.

In court, the explanation given by the police was that he was trying a short-cut home and in the cold and without his coat he had died of a heart-attack.

At the time of his death he was working for the Cincinnati Enquirer. His colleagues there testified that he was working in his office late as he was near completion of his research exposing large-scale police corruption. They said that they were in no doubt that he was killed by the police.

The court found in favor of the police version and explanation.

I have researched the story very fully because I am his grandson, and my account comes from sources published at around the time of his death.

Richard O. Ames Brown

Messrs. Brown and Norton:

Thank you for this valuable information. It supports the authenticity of the Hanson Hiss interview of Surratt. Hiss has the all the earmarks of a responsible journalist, not a raconteur.

John