Confederate Flag

[LincolnMan]

I have over twenty ancestors that served honorably in gray. Again, I think the focus on the Confederate flag at this time is akin to "ignoring the elephant in the room." Our country is in deep deep trouble- and I'm sorry but the Confederate flag is not the cause of the trouble -and removal of it is not the solution.

[Juan Marrero]

The 1960's and 70's produced some wonderful things, but did we have to lose much of our values in order to let go of some of our prejudices?

I don't think that the Confederate flag is a useful means through which to honor those who fought honorably and bravely for the CSA. The Confederate flag has become something along the lines of kitsch--not quite as bad as fuzzy dice to hang from the rearview mirror, but close. The flag, in my view, is commonly interpreted as a sort of backlash to the best parts of the Civil Rights movement, not a dignified memorial to Southern dead, most of whom, as has been pointed out were not themselves slave owners. I have appreciated this forum for its civility. It has remained that way, although this topic shows that the past is not dead, it merely dozes intermittently.

Many years ago, I watched the widow of a MS newspaper editor being interviewed about racism in the South. She bristled a bit and then said one of the most interesting things I've heard on the subject; "In the South, we didn't care how near they got as long as they didn't get too high; in the North, they didn't care how high they got as long as they didn't get to near." Think of it, the Civil War as a quarrel over height and proximity. Perhaps, everything can be reduced to geometric equations.

[J. Beckert]

Here's my take on this - we've become a nation of snivelling, whiney, bleeding heart sissies that pander to anyone who screams racism. As several forum members have stated, their ancestors wore gray. The overwhelming majority were not slaveholders. As with all wars, the working man goes to the front. We're constantly told we can't judge all Muslims by the actions of extremists, but if the right folks scream racism loud enough, things like this come about. Young men who went to war because they saw their homeland burned and looted, can be painted with a broad brush if it quells the whining masses. The whole thing .makes me sick.

[LincolnMan]

As many of the Forum members know, I am a member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. Years ago, the SUVCW passed a resolution regarding the Confederate flag that I am in complete agreement with. The resolution is as follows:

RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT
DISPLAY OF BATTLE FLAGS OF THE CONFEDERACY
119TH NATIONAL ENCAMPMENT OF THE
SONS OF UNION VETERANS OF THE CIVIL WAR
LANSING, MICHIGAN AUGUST 19, 2000

A resolution in support of the display of the Confederate Battle Flag.
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, condemn the use of the confederate battle flag, as well as the flag of the United States, by any and all hate groups; and
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, support the flying of the Confederate battle flag as a historical piece of this nation's history; and
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, oppose the removal of any Confederate monuments or markers to those gallant soldiers in the former Confederate States, and strongly oppose the removal of ANY reminders of this nation's bloodiest war on the grounds of it being "politically correct;" and
WHEREAS, we, as the descendants of Union soldiers and sailors who as members of the Grand Army of the Republic met in joint reunions with the Confederate veterans under both flags in those bonds of Fraternal Friendship, pledge our support and admiration for those gallant soldiers and of their respective flags;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War in 119th Annual National Encampment, hereby adopt this resolution.
Dated in Lansing, Michigan, on this nineteenth day of August, in the year of our Lord Two thousand.

[HerbS]

Two great posts and I agree with both!

[Thomas Thorne]

(06-25-2015 11:27 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I have over twenty ancestors that served honorably in gray. Again, I think the focus on the Confederate flag at this time is akin to "ignoring the elephant in the room." Our country is in deep deep trouble- and I'm sorry but the Confederate flag is not the cause of the trouble -and removal of it is not the solution.

God bless you Bill

The flying of the Confederate flag in the capital of South Carolina did not begin in modern times until 1962 when Southern Democratic politicians used it as a gesture of defiance against the civil rights revolution. We Republicans have issues with the Confederate flag dating back to 1861. As large numbers of our countrymen have sincere feelings of revulsion toward the symbols of the Confederacy and the particular placement in stars and Bars in the statehouse gives a certain endorsement, the flag should be removed.

I find myself appalled at the behavior of some of the advocates of its removal. They display a hatred of present day white southerners whom they ludicrously believe are panting to restore white supremacy. If you had said in 1915 that the white supremacy regimes of the American South and South Africa would collapse without a bloodbath, you would have have been scorned. One day a great historian will explain to us why 1960's Southern politicians did not do what their ancestors did in 1861.

When Apple announced it would no longer sell war games with the Confederate flag logo on the cover, we have reached dangerous levels of hysteria. Will someone propose we dynamite Surratt House and Stones Mountain as Confederate symbols? This is something the Taliban and ISIS do. A movie critic even argued for the stoppage of further releases of "Gone With the Wind."

Tom

[Jim Page]

All this blather (and I chose that word carefully) about the Confederate war flag wearies me.

The murders of the church-goers in Charleston were horrifying. The attempts to use them to serve political purposes are nauseating.

--Jim

[L Verge]

(06-26-2015 12:36 PM)Jim Page Wrote:  All this blather (and I chose that word carefully) about the Confederate war flag wearies me.

The murders of the church-goers in Charleston were horrifying. The attempts to use them to serve political purposes are nauseating.

--Jim

I love you more each day, Jim Page! Like so many other issues in our modern world, I often think that they could be solved much more easily without the meddling of the media (that has its own purpose) and the politicians (who we figured out a long time ago are only after votes for themselves or their cronies).

Has anyone questioned young Mr. Roof as to where he learned to hate? I don't think that gazing at the Stars and Bars made it happen, and judging by the fact that his parents went to church last Sunday, I would guess that other people and personal experiences have created the monster within him. Lord knows, watching the local evening news in my D.C. area could do it to him!

[L Verge]

(06-25-2015 09:16 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  As many of the Forum members know, I am a member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. Years ago, the SUVCW passed a resolution regarding the Confederate flag that I am in complete agreement with. The resolution is as follows:

RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT
DISPLAY OF BATTLE FLAGS OF THE CONFEDERACY
119TH NATIONAL ENCAMPMENT OF THE
SONS OF UNION VETERANS OF THE CIVIL WAR
LANSING, MICHIGAN AUGUST 19, 2000

A resolution in support of the display of the Confederate Battle Flag.
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, condemn the use of the confederate battle flag, as well as the flag of the United States, by any and all hate groups; and
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, support the flying of the Confederate battle flag as a historical piece of this nation's history; and
WHEREAS, we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, oppose the removal of any Confederate monuments or markers to those gallant soldiers in the former Confederate States, and strongly oppose the removal of ANY reminders of this nation's bloodiest war on the grounds of it being "politically correct;" and
WHEREAS, we, as the descendants of Union soldiers and sailors who as members of the Grand Army of the Republic met in joint reunions with the Confederate veterans under both flags in those bonds of Fraternal Friendship, pledge our support and admiration for those gallant soldiers and of their respective flags;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that we, the members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War in 119th Annual National Encampment, hereby adopt this resolution.
Dated in Lansing, Michigan, on this nineteenth day of August, in the year of our Lord Two thousand.

An excellent example of how intelligent people deal with such issues.

[ReignetteC]

"Here's What Abraham Lincoln Would Say Today About the Confederate Flag" by Michael Burlingame. Thoughts?

http://journal.ijreview.com/2015/07/2450...historian/

[HerbS]

ReignetteC-tremendous post!Thoughts?-I agree with Lincoln and his ideas!

[L Verge]

I just had to post this... I just received a phone call from a gentleman in Pennsylvania who wanted to receive information on the John Wilkes Booth Escape Route Tours. After he gave me his name and address, he said, "I figure I better get on one of these tours before they are declared illegal also."

In regards to Mr. Burlingame's assessment of the situation, I especially agreed with one of his statements: "In addition, Lincoln would probably deplore another feature of contemporary American life: the power of the grievance industry, which encourages individuals and groups to wallow in a sense of victimhood."

And to me, that pertains to all sides because one group's wallowing leads to repercussions from other groups. I would still like to know what policies Lincoln would have put in place in order to prevent hard feelings from lasting for another 150 years. Will we ever recover from Reconstruction?

[Wild Bill]

As far as Reconstruction is concerned, Laurie, the answer to your question is NO.

[HerbS]

As a retired teacher[35yrs],I would never hang the Confederate Flag in my classroom,I was New York State's Safe School's rep and I know that it would have caused a very toxic situaton!

[L Verge]

"...Really messy, isn't it?"

You are so accurate with that last statement, Rosemary! However, in my opinion, the mess will never be cleared up until everyone stops using that poor flag (that only represented one small part of the Confederate military during the CW) as their idea of freedom of expression. Taking it down and attempting to criminalize its origins is not solving the problems.

Symbols don't cause continuing hatred - personal actions and the desire to whine and complain without attempting to solve the problems keep the pot stirred up. And, with the ever-controlling power of the press (being spurred on by political and self-serving interests), it has become even messier trying to separate fact from fiction.

I probably live among and work on a daily basis with more diverse people than most of you come in contact with in a month. In our county, African Americans comprise over 80% of the population, and we are also the richest African American county in the nation. Surratt House draws much of its funding from the county tax rate, so our citizens are basically helping to finance a nationally known site whose history is directly tied to the slavery issue in the 1850s and 60s. I am also happy to report that a good portion of our visitation is from that community and that our education department reaches as many as 3000 county school children each year. We discuss the slave issue on tours. And, we have done it without conflict for forty years.

We also serve the D.C. area (just 12 miles from the Capitol), so we work with a wide variety of races and ethnicities. Unfortunately, it's a little difficult to work Asians, Middle Eastern folk, those from South America, and others into our curriculum, but they do come to learn the history of our Civil War and the story of the Surratts and their involvement in the Lincoln assassination and leave with plenty of compliments for us.

As long as "all kinds of voices" keep "talking and yelling and screaming...with thundering, howling winds of old violence," we will have an even more difficult time of accomplishing any good. It's time to ignore the press and the politicians who are thundering for money and votes (like the carpetbaggers of old who descended on the South like locusts) and get down to the
basics of educating people to good work ethics and working side by side to get things done.

Stop handing out food stamps and cell phones to the lazy and show them the progress that has been made - especially in the last fifty years - instead of whining about the past injustices. Stop dividing the nation via reverse discrimination where someone is hired on the basis of race instead of qualifications to do a good job. That is not solving any problems.

My comments here are not aimed at you, Rosemary. I am expressing my thoughts as I live and work in a multi-racial, politically-driven area of the country that is sharply divided along economic lines. I have friends from a variety of backgrounds who have the same value system that I have -- black, white, pink, and purple, they have learned that education and positive attitudes have helped them achieve their goals.