Welcome

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thank you, Linda, for the information. I remember reading Frances was once close to begin an affair with another man.

[mbgross]

could someone explain to me why the book The Papers of A.L.: Legal Documents and Cases is so expensive? Wasn't most of the funds to write and do the research come from public donors and public money? I donated a small amount myself ( not much, but gave what I could). The cost of the four volumes is around $300.00. Out of my price range and I suspect out of the price range of many hard working Americans. Only the elitist can afford such high prices. Did they want to create a book that they only could afford and only be in their collection? What would Lincoln think?

[RJNorton]

Mike, there is a little lower price - $239.79 - on Amazon. I realize that does not help much or answer your question. All the documents are searchable online if you go here.

[RJNorton]

Trudy, your book just arrived and looks terrific. The blurbs on the book's back cover by Walter Stahr, James McPherson, Kate Larson, and Deirdre Stam make me extremely eager to read the book.

[Trudy Krisher]

(01-17-2015 08:24 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I started reading the book this evening and finished about fifty pages. I am thoroughly enjoying learning so much about a little girl that previously has just floated through some of the volumes that I have read about the Lincoln assassination and the Civil War years in Washington, D.C. I suspect I am going to give it an A+ at the end, just as I did the American Queen and Kate Chase.

I agree with Linda that Mrs. Seward may have suffered from anxiety disorder, which can cause people to think one is a hypochondriac. From just these few chapters, I suspect that Frances Seward was coddled by her father and expected the same from a husband. When she acquired an extrovert for a husband, I wonder if her feigning illness (knowingly or unknowingly) led to her chronic "illnesses" in order to try and get that coddling?

Mrs. Seward was certainly very active in social issues of the day, especially in her concerns for the welfare of black Americans. She must not have been too sickly to work in that field. In fact, Ms. Kircher points out that she wanted reforms and emancipation to come much faster than even her husband and that was a bone of contention between them,

---

Dear Laurie,

Thank you for your nice comments about "my Fanny" and for the remarks about Frances Seward as well.

Mrs. Seward is an absolutely fascinating character. I do deal with her in a bit more detail later in the book. Her husband the Secretary said "I am an enigma unto myself." His wife was equally enigmatic. In her actions on behalf of the slave, her behavior was absolutely consistent with her beliefs, no wavering, no doubt. Of course, she was not a "politician" as her husband was. It is heartbreaking to think that she did not have the benefit of modern medicine or the benefit of a more empowering environment for women. She was her husband's equal in matters of intelligence, no doubt. And there was a bit of connivance, I suspect, in her withdrawal. She did not enjoy social activities, so it may have been "convenient" to have the excuse of illness to fall back on.

I am not a technical person who is online much in discussion forums, but I'll do my best here! Someone once said that being drawn into the Sewards was like being drawn into The Mob - once you get in, you can't get out! That is surely my situation!

Very best,
Trudy Krisher

[LincolnToddFan]

(01-17-2015 01:27 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 12:43 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Another thing that has always baffled me is the story of Charles Sumner going to the Seward house on the morning after the attack and finding Mrs. Seward sitting dazed on the staircase. She speaks of her fear that her son Frederick was dying, but is silent on the subject of her horribly mutilated husband.

Any ideas?

Perhaps since Dr. Verdi (love his name) had pronounced Seward out of danger the night of the attack, her son's uncertain condition (wasn't he comatose at the time?) was uppermost in her mind?

Hi Susan-

That's a good reason, but my understanding is that it was at least a week or so before the Secretary was clearly out of danger. Maybe I got it wrong. Thanks!

[Linda Anderson]

(01-17-2015 09:00 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thank you, Linda, for the information. I remember reading Frances was once close to begin an affair with another man.

Trudy, what do you think of the The Governor and His Lady by Earl Conrad? I got it out of the library some time ago but I remember reading that Mr. & Mrs. Seward had an "understanding" about Seward's relationships with other women in Washington while Mrs. Seward was living in Auburn. Maybe they didn't actually talk about it but Frances looked the other way. As I recall, there was no documentation in Conrad's book.

That's true about Frances, Eva. The following is from my post in the George Robinson and his Family thread. The source is Seward: Lincoln's Indispensable Man by Walter Stahr.

"...it is clear from later letters that sometime during this winter [Seward's friend Alfred] Tracy crossed the line between friendly familiarity and inappropriate intimacy with Frances. Exactly what happened cannot be reconstructed-it seems unlikely there was any physical relationship-but one day Frances came to her husband in tears, handed him a set of letters from Tracy, and asked him to decide whether she had acted improperly. Seward burned the letters without reading them, wrapped his wife in his arms, and assured her that he loved and trusted her. For some reason he did not confront Tracy-that would not come for several months-and indeed he continued in the interim to write Tracy friendly letters."

In late 1834 Seward wrote to Frances that "Tracy offered her the 'feelings and love' which Seward should have offered her as her husband..."

Tracy wrote to Seward "regretting that they were no longer as close as they had been when they first met. 'Commend me to your dear wife,' Tracy wrote on December 29, 'for she knows the strength and purity of my love and will not doubt its constancy.'"

Seward wrote back the same day that "he had forgiven Tracy for his offense, but not forgotten it, and that they would part as mere friends, nothing more."

[L Verge]

I am now into about the first 150 pages of Fanny Seward: A Life and still loving it. It is so much more than just a biography of an intelligent young lady; it is proving to be an excellent overview of life between Auburn, New York, and Washington, D.C. during our country's most turbulent decades. It's covering military aspects as well as familial and social events in the life of Fanny and others of her age. Thank you, Trudy!

May I ask a personal question? I have yet to google your name for your bio, but I am trying to decide whether you are a professor of history or English literature? I was assuming history until the chapter where you discuss Fanny's literary growth. That turned me to thinking of literature because you review her work much like a teacher of 19th-century writing would -- especially her poem on Dead! Dead?

[Eva Elisabeth]

(01-18-2015 02:05 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 09:00 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thank you, Linda, for the information. I remember reading Frances was once close to begin an affair with another man.

Trudy, what do you think of the The Governor and His Lady by Earl Conrad? I got it out of the library some time ago but I remember reading that Mr. & Mrs. Seward had an "understanding" about Seward's relationships with other women in Washington while Mrs. Seward was living in Auburn. Maybe they didn't actually talk about it but Frances looked the other way. As I recall, there was no documentation in Conrad's book.

That's true about Frances, Eva. The following is from my post in the George Robinson and his Family thread:

"...it is clear from later letters that sometime during this winter [Seward's friend Alfred] Tracy crossed the line between friendly familiarity and inappropriate intimacy with Frances. Exactly what happened cannot be reconstructed-it seems unlikely there was any physical relationship-but one day Frances came to her husband in tears, handed him a set of letters from Tracy, and asked him to decide whether she had acted improperly. Seward burned the letters without reading them, wrapped his wife in his arms, and assured her that he loved and trusted her. For some reason he did not confront Tracy-that would not come for several months-and indeed he continued in the interim to write Tracy friendly letters."

In late 1834 Seward wrote to Frances that "Tracy offered her the 'feelings and love' which Seward should have offered her as her husband..."

Tracy wrote to Seward "regretting that they were no longer as close as they had been when they first met. 'Commend me to your dear wife,' Tracy wrote on December 29, 'for she knows the strength and purity of my love and will not doubt its constancy.'"

Seward wrote back the same day that "he had forgiven Tracy for his offense, but not forgotten it, and that they would part as mere friends, nothing more."

Thanks, Linda. I wonder if "they would part as MERE friends, nothing more" was meant in a positive (same kind of friendship as before, no grudges) or negative (friendship "level" decreased from close to "average") way.

Toia, I, too, read Verdi pronounced Seward out of danger the night of the attack (but can't find where now). "American Brutus" (p.246) reads that before Saturday afternoon Dr. Verdi had already determined that Seward's injuries weren't life-threatening. The source for the entire passage is an article or interview in the "Western Homeopatic Observer 2" of May 15, 1865. Would be interesting to read this...

[Trudy Krisher]

(01-18-2015 02:05 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 09:00 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thank you, Linda, for the information. I remember reading Frances was once close to begin an affair with another man.

Trudy, what do you think of the The Governor and His Lady by Earl Conrad? I got it out of the library some time ago but I remember reading that Mr. & Mrs. Seward had an "understanding" about Seward's relationships with other women in Washington while Mrs. Seward was living in Auburn. Maybe they didn't actually talk about it but Frances looked the other way. As I recall, there was no documentation in Conrad's book.

That's true about Frances, Eva. The following is from my post in the George Robinson and his Family thread:

"...it is clear from later letters that sometime during this winter [Seward's friend Alfred] Tracy crossed the line between friendly familiarity and inappropriate intimacy with Frances. Exactly what happened cannot be reconstructed-it seems unlikely there was any physical relationship-but one day Frances came to her husband in tears, handed him a set of letters from Tracy, and asked him to decide whether she had acted improperly. Seward burned the letters without reading them, wrapped his wife in his arms, and assured her that he loved and trusted her. For some reason he did not confront Tracy-that would not come for several months-and indeed he continued in the interim to write Tracy friendly letters."

In late 1834 Seward wrote to Frances that "Tracy offered her the 'feelings and love' which Seward should have offered her as her husband..."

Tracy wrote to Seward "regretting that they were no longer as close as they had been when they first met. 'Commend me to your dear wife,' Tracy wrote on December 29, 'for she knows the strength and purity of my love and will not doubt its constancy.'"

Seward wrote back the same day that "he had forgiven Tracy for his offense, but not forgotten it, and that they would part as mere friends, nothing more."

---

Linda and Eva,

Yes, the information about the Tracy affair is true. I enjoyed reading THE GOVERNOR AND HIS LADY but preferred focusing on primary sources as I felt Conrad was a bit novelistic in his treatment.

However, there is not a SMIDGEN of evidence that I know of that Seward was ever unfaithful to his wife. Although he was gregarious, respected women, and loved socializing, his personal life was completely free of scandal. Although he and Frances lived separate lives in Auburn and Washington (both chose their separate poles), he loved her very much, respected her intelligence, and worried about her health.

---

(01-18-2015 09:59 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I am now into about the first 150 pages of Fanny Seward: A Life and still loving it. It is so much more than just a biography of an intelligent young lady; it is proving to be an excellent overview of life between Auburn, New York, and Washington, D.C. during our country's most turbulent decades. It's covering military aspects as well as familial and social events in the life of Fanny and others of her age. Thank you, Trudy!

May I ask a personal question? I have yet to google your name for your bio, but I am trying to decide whether you are a professor of history or English literature? I was assuming history until the chapter where you discuss Fanny's literary growth. That turned me to thinking of literature because you review her work much like a teacher of 19th-century writing would -- especially her poem on Dead! Dead?

---

Thank you, Laurie, for your kind words. I appreciate your comments about context. Since so many readers would not necessarily have heard of Fanny, I felt it was important to place her in an historical context.

Yes, my background is literary, not historical, although I have great affection for both. In the Acknowledgements section of the book you can learn more about me and how I came to Fanny's story. One great attraction was that Fanny was an aspiring writer, and writing was something I aspired to when young as well.

You can learn more about me at my website http://www.trudykrisherauthor.com

I'm so glad you are enjoying learning more about the Sewards.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(01-19-2015 09:30 AM)Trudy Krisher Wrote:  However, there is not a SMIDGEN of evidence that I know of that Seward was ever unfaithful to his wife. Although he was gregarious, respected women, and loved socializing, his personal life was completely free of scandal.

This 100% confirms my image and impression of him. Re.: "he loved her very much...and worried about her health" - he seemed rather a rational than a passionate, emotional "lover" and person at all. What would you think he loved more - politics or his wife? (I'm not sure.)

[Linda Anderson]

Thank you, Trudy for your response on Conrad's book. I have another question for you. Have you read of any reaction Fanny had to Powell's execution? I wonder what seeing him eye to eye on the monitor did to her. Even though she didn't identify him, she must have known it was him because her brother Gus did identify him and the doorman William H. Bell had identified him earlier at General Augur's headquarters.

For that matter, have you read of any of the Sewards' reaction to Powell's execution?

---

(01-19-2015 09:50 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(01-19-2015 09:30 AM)Trudy Krisher Wrote:  However, there is not a SMIDGEN of evidence that I know of that Seward was ever unfaithful to his wife. Although he was gregarious, respected women, and loved socializing, his personal life was completely free of scandal.

This 100% confirms my image and impression of him. Re.: "he loved her very much...and worried about her health" - he seemed rather a rational than a passionate, emotional "lover" and person at all. What would you think he loved more - politics or his wife? (I'm not sure.)

Hi Eva, I have a different impression of Seward. Here's a quote from an 1868 newspaper about Seward's relationship with Olive Risley. There was speculation that Seward would marry Olive. He ended up adopting her so they could travel the world without scandal. Seward was 67 and Olive was 24, a few months older than Fanny would have been if she had lived.

"By October, papers were commenting upon the 'contemplated marriage.' 'He is lonely in his great establishments here and at Auburn,' one paper reported, 'and being an amiable, sportive, frisky, foxy, and infatuating man of fame and place, who would not marry him that was ambitious and the daughter of a politician?'"

From William Henry Seward: Lincoln's Indispensable Man.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I am not sure what to think of this. The quote is what the newspapers thought. Did Seward himself ever comment on his feelings towards Olive Risley? It would have been legitimate to re-marry so long after his wife's death, even church wouldn't consider this unfaithful (though I'm not sure if I personally would), and he wouldn't have been the frist to take a much younger wife. Also I wonder if she sort of filled the gap Fanny left and reminded him of her? Olive was born in the same year as Fanny.

[Gene C]

I understood that he leagally adopted Olive (even though she was an adult), she and her sister traveled quite a bit with him in Asia, and Olive helped him to write a book on his travels.
http://www.amazon.com/William-Sewards-Tr...806&sr=1-6

Here is the Wiki article about her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_Risley_Seward

Is it me, or does she look a bit like Clara Harris?
http://blog.fords.org/2014/08/14/clara-h...-identity/

[Linda Anderson]

(01-19-2015 02:37 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I am not sure what to think of this. The quote is what the newspapers thought. Did Seward himself ever comment on his feelings towards Olive Risley? It would have been legitimate to re-marry so long after his wife's death, even church wouldn't consider this unfaithful (though I'm not sure if I personally would), and he wouldn't have been the frist to take a much younger wife. Also I wonder if she sort of filled the gap Fanny left and reminded him of her? Olive was born in the same year as Fanny.

I don't know if Seward ever commented publicly on his feelings towards Olive but they wrote affectionate letters to each other. Seward was devastated by Fanny's death and I'm sure that explains a lot of his feelings for Olive. I don't have a problem with the large age difference. Seward was lonely and Olive traveled the world with him, took his name when he adopted her and shared in his inheritance when he died.

John M. Taylor in William Henry Seward: Lincoln's Right Hand states that after Seward adopted Olive, "Seward rewrote his will, dividing his estate evenly among his three sons and Olive Risley Seward.

"...At least there would be no May-and-December marriage, and no young bride to inherit the bulk of Seward's estate."

Taylor quotes another Seward biographer, Glyndon G. Van Deusen, as saying that he (Van Deusen) had it on the "best authority" that letters revealing what the Sewards really thought of Olive and her father "were destroyed by relatives before the Seward Papers were given to the University of Rochester."