JWB and God

[Eva Elisabeth]

Was JWB a religious person - in the traditional or any other way? Why (not)?
Many thanks for your input!

[Gene C]

The following would indicate he thought so

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ft...diary.html

[Eva Elisabeth]

Yes, it would indicate so, I just wonder if drama had a share in the wording. Also - what about the rest of his biography - are there more indications? Was there a turning point or development?

[BettyO]

Quote:I just wonder if drama had a share in the wording

Yes, I think his training as an actor had a lot to do with the "melodrama"/"drama" that contributed to his actions. He was brought up to respect ALL religions as his father, Junius, truly appreciated all sects; Christianity and Jewish, etc. Basically though, JWB was brought up, I think as an Episcopalian.

[Eva Elisabeth]

As for the drama - we also don't know what the truth was about his broken leg, he didn't shout "Sic Semper Tyrannis" before he shot the president, and he also it was a tumor which was removed from his neck although he told it was a bullet. So I wonder if he ever had spoken before in such terms, or read the bible like Lincoln, or if there are further indications.
Speaking of his father - as his father was a vegetarian and raised his children likewise, did JWB stick to this in adult life?

[L Verge]

As for being a vegetarian, his visits to oyster bars would answer that question. Booth was raised and educated as an Episcopalian, and so far as I know, there has never been any evidence to show that he converted to Catholicism as his sister indicated somewhere. There is a reference to him supporting a Catholic event on behalf of the Surratts. Perhaps that is where the medal came from that he was said to have. It was not unusual, however, for Catholics and Episcopalians to share the same medals and beliefs.

Back to the original question, however, you don't have to attend a particular church or support a certain denomination to be a Christian and to believe in God. While he certainly committed the worst crime known to man in 1865, accounts by his sister, his friends, and even references to his loving children (and playing with them the day before his death at Garrett's farm) indicate to me that he was a caring and charitable person. I had mentioned before that he saved Union officer Adam Badeau during the NY Draft Riots. He did the same for a black friend of Edwin's at that time.

War changes many people, and Booth is certainly a poster child for that. His hatred and actions were directed at people that he thought had changed his beloved country for the worst. In doing so, he "usurped" God's power. God is the final judge -- of course, we don't know what happened to Mr. Lincoln upon reaching the pearly gates...

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks for your reply, Laurie. I forgot the Oyster bars - most likely because I had meat in mind...Re: "You don't have to attend a particular church or support a certain denomination to be a Christian and to believe in God" - yes, that's why I worded it "or any other way". And many who are formally members of a church and pay church taxes because of tradition never attend except for Xmas (and many not even then).
Well, my question aimed rather at learning what you believe he believed.

[Linda Anderson]

(11-18-2014 06:09 PM)L Verge Wrote:  His hatred and actions were directed at people that he thought had changed his beloved country for the worst. In doing so, he "usurped" God's power. God is the final judge -- of course, we don't know what happened to Mr. Lincoln upon reaching the pearly gates...

Booth wrote in his diary about the assassination, "This last was not a wrong, unless God deems it so, and it's with Him to damn or bless me," which shows that he was preparing for death. Powell, Mary Surratt, Herold and Atzerodt also had time to prepare to meet their Maker before their executions.

Lincoln was not afforded that time.

[L Verge]

(11-18-2014 06:36 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(11-18-2014 06:09 PM)L Verge Wrote:  His hatred and actions were directed at people that he thought had changed his beloved country for the worst. In doing so, he "usurped" God's power. God is the final judge -- of course, we don't know what happened to Mr. Lincoln upon reaching the pearly gates...

Booth wrote in his diary about the assassination, "This last was not a wrong, unless God deems it so, and it's with Him to damn or bless me," which shows that he was preparing for death. Powell, Mary Surratt, Herold and Atzerodt also had time to prepare to meet their Maker before their executions.

Lincoln was not afforded that time.

I was raised to believe that one's actions in LIFE are what prepares one for the everlasting. And before some jump at me, I am not trying to imply that Mr. Lincoln did not practice a godly life. I'm sure that he did -- much more so than many of our nation's presidents.

I just never quite understand how anyone can live 10 to 100+ years doing whatever they darn well feel like doing and then be able to turn things around to suit God in a matter of days or months. Like Booth, I am an Episcopalian (born and raised), played the church organ for 26 years, and obediently said the General Confession every Sunday before Communion. That said, I still have problems with a mortal priest turning around and granting me absolution. I'm waiting on God to do that.

Sorry, I don't want to be a preacher...

[Jim Garrett]

As stated earlier, JWB was brought up to respect religions of all kinds. He was sent to The Milton Academy, which was run by a Quaker. By at least one account, he left for disciplinary reasons. He later attended St. Timothy's Academy. The headmaster was Rev. Libertus Van Bokkelen (my avatar) and the school baptized all students in the Episcopal faith. One of his teachers there was Henry Onderdonk, son of an Episcopal priest who went almost all the way through seminary and for some reason, never completed his religious education. Onderdonk went on to resurrect a closed Episcopal college for the arch diocese of Maryland in 1867. The Episcopal church was the unofficial church of the Confederacy with much of the high command devote Episcopalians.

[Linda Anderson]

(11-18-2014 07:50 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(11-18-2014 06:36 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(11-18-2014 06:09 PM)L Verge Wrote:  His hatred and actions were directed at people that he thought had changed his beloved country for the worst. In doing so, he "usurped" God's power. God is the final judge -- of course, we don't know what happened to Mr. Lincoln upon reaching the pearly gates...

Booth wrote in his diary about the assassination, "This last was not a wrong, unless God deems it so, and it's with Him to damn or bless me," which shows that he was preparing for death. Powell, Mary Surratt, Herold and Atzerodt also had time to prepare to meet their Maker before their executions.

Lincoln was not afforded that time.

I was raised to believe that one's actions in LIFE are what prepares one for the everlasting. And before some jump at me, I am not trying to imply that Mr. Lincoln did not practice a godly life. I'm sure that he did -- much more so than many of our nation's presidents.

I just never quite understand how anyone can live 10 to 100+ years doing whatever they darn well feel like doing and then be able to turn things around to suit God in a matter of days or months. Like Booth, I am an Episcopalian (born and raised), played the church organ for 26 years, and obediently said the General Confession every Sunday before Communion. That said, I still have problems with a mortal priest turning around and granting me absolution. I'm waiting on God to do that.

Sorry, I don't want to be a preacher...

All I can speak to is the Catholic Church which says, "Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, "The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41"

Absolution means that one is forgiven his or her sins but there are still the consequences of the sins that must be atoned for through penance.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s2c2a4.htm

[RJNorton]

Many thanks to Jim G. for sending these photos and information:

"The first picture is of Henry Onderdonk. After St. Timothy's, he was the President of the Maryland Agricultural College (now University of Maryland). He was the target of some controversy when he was questioned about allowing Confederate troops encamp on college property. He resigned in protest. He also resurrected the College of St. James in 1867, after it was closed during the Civil War. It was/is located near Sharpsburg and following the battle of Sharpsburg, Gen. Jubal Early went through the campus on the way to cross the Potomac back into Virginia. Early took the headmaster and several faculty members hostage to ensure safe passage across the Potomac. St. James was converted to a boys boarding school with Onderdonk as headmaster. BTW, I graduated from St. James (along with Robert E. Lee V) and also University of Maryland.

The second image is of the Baptismal font at St. Timothy's Episcopal Church (the last vestige of St. Timothy's Academy) and is the original font of the school where JWB was baptized."

[L Verge]

What a magnificent baptismal font. A group of us visited St. Timothy's years ago, but the church was locked at the time, so we never saw the inside. Thanks for posting. You wouldn't happen to have a photo of the altar, would you?

[Jim Garrett]

(11-19-2014 03:10 PM)L Verge Wrote:  What a magnificent baptismal font. A group of us visited St. Timothy's years ago, but the church was locked at the time, so we never saw the inside. Thanks for posting. You wouldn't happen to have a photo of the altar, would you?

Sorry, I didn't get a picture of the alter, since the alter is not original to the school.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks for sharing the photos, Jim - I agree with Laurie: magnificent!!