Grant and Lincoln's invitation

[loetar44]

Gen. Grant and his wife were invited by Lincoln to accompany him and Mary to Ford’s Theatre on April 14, 1865. Why declined the Grants this invitation? They said that they had to return to their home in New Jersey, but was that the true (or partially true) reason? Was the obvious reason that Julia Grant flatly refused to be in Mary’s company after an earlier (March 26) incident involving Gen. Ord’s wife? Or was the true reason that Julia Grant awoke that morning with a strong feeling, fearing that something terrible was about to happen with her husband if they joined the Lincolns that day? Or was there another reason than the Ord’s incident or premonitions of impending danger (if you want to believe that that last would be possible)?

[LincolnMan]

I don't think I've ever read that Mrs. Grant had any sense of impending tragedy about the evening of the 14th. Many do claim that the incident involving Gen. Ord's wife was the "last straw." Didn't Mrs. Lincoln have a confrontation with Mrs. Grant besides? Or was that during the Ord incident? Mary Lincoln scolded her for having aspirations of becoming the wife of a President (U.S. Grant). The accusation didn't make sense really- how would that have any impact on Mary anyway?

[RJNorton]

I agree with Bill. I have read various descriptions of the "previous history" of the two ladies, and I simply think Julia Grant did not want to spend an evening at the theater sitting in the same box as Mary Lincoln. I believe this dislike may also have come up in 1879. The Grants were traveling in Europe and stopped in Pau, France, at the same time Mary Lincoln was there. No contact with Mary Lincoln was made, and Jean Baker uses the word "snubbed." Julia Grant later explained she and her husband didn't realize Mary was also in Pau until it was too late to visit her, but Jean Baker feels it was more likely "repayment for past slights." Who knows.

[loetar44]

Bill and Roger,

Joel Martin en William J. Birnes write in "The Haunting of the Presidents: A Paranormal History of the U.S. Presidency" (2005) the following:

   

[LincolnMan]

Now I wonder what was the writer's source for that?

[loetar44]

It is characteristic of premonitions that those who experience them cannot tell why they have feelings of these usually unpleasant “forewarnings.” Ulysses Grant (see Grant, Papers, vol 5, p, 7) say that his wife Julia had premonitions that Richmond had fallen. And when you read “The Personal Memoirs of Julia Dent Grant (Mrs. Ulysses S. Grant)” by Julia Dent Grant p. 154 – 157, she tells about the unpleasant feeling she had after she received Mary’s invitation, the unpleasant feeling that something threatening was approaching and that she had a chance to avoid it by leaving Washington at once. Nothing about an “Ord’s incident”. I do not say that I believe in a “sixth sense”, but I won’t rule out that Julia’s unpleasant feeling about something bad going to happen was the real cause of Grant's hasty departure from Washington. That’s why I think Julia’s own words are very interesting (attached). It starts with “We retired at a late hour”. That was April 13, when the Grants returned from a reception at the Stantons and after seeing the illumination of the town.

           

In “The General’s Wife, The Life of Mrs. Ulysses S. Grant” by Ishbel Ross, Emma Dent Casey tells that Julia had had one of her premonitory dreams of disaster for
that night (April 14). Remember Lincoln had had one too, presaging his own death.

Curious about what you think ...

[RJNorton]

I am curious about what the Grants said when they first checked into the Willard Hotel. Would it be common practice to disclose how many nights they were intending to stay at check-in? Did they originally tell the hotel they were staying the night of the 14th?

Although many books say both Mr. and Mrs. Grant stayed late at the Stantons' reception Linda Anderson discovered this is wrong. Ulysses left the Stantons' reception early to see the Grand Illumination with Mary Lincoln.

Quoting Linda's post:

"I found a reference that says General Grant did accompany Mrs. Lincoln on the evening of April 13, 1865 to see the Grand Illumination. Mrs. Grant was not invited by Mrs. Lincoln. The quote is from Abraham Lincoln: A Life, by Michael Burlingame. Knox College, Unedited Manuscript, Vol 2, Chapter 36. The reference can also be found in The Inner World of Abraham Lincoln, also by Burlingame.

"The previous evening, Lincoln had been too sick with a headache to take a carriage ride with his wife, who wished to see the brilliant illuminations celebrating Lee’s surrender. Grant, at Lincoln’s request, had agreed to accompany her. As she and the general entered their carriage, the crowd that had gathered outside the White House shouted “Grant!” nine times. Taking offense, Mrs. Lincoln instructed the driver to let her out, but she changed her mind when the crowd also cheered for the president. This happened again and again as the carriage proceeded around town. The First Lady evidently thought it inappropriate that Grant should be cheered before her husband was."

The footnote says, "In the fall of 1869, Grant gave this account to his cabinet. Hamilton Fish diary, entry for 12 November 1869, Fish Papers, Library of Congress."

[Gene C]

Both those books you mentioned sound interesting. If anyone has read either one, could you please make some comments/review in the book section.

[LincolnMan]

Somehow I hadn't associated such things to Mrs. Grant. Well, that's why this Forum is so important and continues to be so.

[loetar44]

(10-07-2014 02:48 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I am curious about what the Grants said when they first checked into the Willard Hotel. Would it be common practice to disclose how many nights they were intending to stay at check-in? Did they originally tell the hotel they were staying the night of the 14th?

The Grants arrived April 13 and would stay (according to the NYT) "several days" at Willard's.
The New York Times writes:

"WASHINGTON, Thursday, April 13.
The dispatch-boat Mary Martin arrived up from City Point about 3 o'clock this afternoon, with Lieut.-Gen. GRANT and wife. The General was accompanied by the following members of his staff: Brevet Major-Gen. John A. Rawlins, Brig.-Gens. Dent. Ingalls and Williams. Cols. Babcock and Potter, Lieut.-Col. Parker, Major Leet, Capt. Boudinot and Lieut Dunn. The other members of the party were Assistant-Secretary Dana, Major-Gen. Meigs, Col. Hillyer, of New-York, and Cols. Pride and Barnard, of St. Louis.

Gen. GRANT is stopping at Willard's, and the office of the hotel has been thronged all the evening with persons who hoped to catch sight of him. He has, however, been at the White House most of the evening, and was not at any time visible at the hotel. He will not return to the front for several days."

Nothing about that the Grants planned to leave the town soon and hasty on the 14th ....

---

(10-07-2014 02:48 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Although many books say both Mr. and Mrs. Grant stayed late at the Stantons' reception Linda Anderson discovered this is wrong. Ulysses left the Stantons' reception early to see the Grand Illumination with Mary Lincoln.

Linda is right.

This is what Julia Grant wrote about the illuimination of the city and the fact that Gen. Grant was with Mary Lincoln in “The Personal Memoirs of Julia Dent Grant":

   

BTW: the New York Times is lyric about the illumination:

"The illumination of the city this evening [April 13] is general and brilliant, utterly beyond anything ever before attempted here, and has drawn thousands upon thousands of persons upon the streets. Pennsylvania-avenue is a line of light from First-street to Twenty-second-street, a distance of nearly two miles, there being but very few houses on either side in that whole extent which are not illuminated. Several other streets, for distances of half a mile each, also present an almost continuous line of illumination. All the public buildings are of course illuminated and decorated with flags, lanterns, &c., that of the Navy Department being unquestionably the finest. Hundreds and hundreds of private houses are illuminated and decorated in the most brilliant and elegant manner, and mottoes and transparencies and flags everywhere abound."

[HerbS]

I have a rule-I do not have a hissing contest with a skunk.Maybe just maybe-Mrs.Grant felt that way towards Mary.

[loetar44]

I still wondering why Julia Grant wanted to leave town so quickly. And why did the Grants choose the local train, which took 13 long hours to reach Burlington? A much faster option was the 7:30 am express in the morning of April 15, arriving 7½ hours later. This was not only a lot faster, but there was also not a long 6 hour delay in Philadelphia to swap trains. Why did the Grants choose this “slow” local and why did they choose to spend six hours in the middle of the night in an uncomfortable train station in Philadelphia (the news of Lincoln’s assassination reached the Grants during the stop here). That the reason for this was only because Julia did not want to sit in the same box as Mary, seems very odd to me. If she disliked Mary that much why did Julia than agree that her husband accompanied Mary on the evening of the 13th? Why did she make the decision in the morning of the 14th to leave Washington asap? Like the Stantons (and others) the Grants could have simply said “no” to Lincoln’s invitation. Ellen Stanton, like Julia Grant, did not like Mary Lincoln too, but the Stantons did not leave Washington to have an “excuse”. I understand that the Grants wanted to see their children, but it is not logical to me that they wanted to see them at ca. 7:00 am (arrival time of the local train), tired, with very little sleep and not at ca. 3:00 pm (arrival time express train) much more relaxed. Julia wrote in her memoirs that she wanted to leave Washington, not because of Mary, but because she felt a great sense of urgency to leave the town, not because of Lincoln’s life but Grant’s life was in danger. Mrs. Grant’s bad feelings, growing so intense that day, are more logical to me. But how to prove such a life saving hunch? We only have Julia’s memoirs, which I find pretty convincing. It has been documented many times that Lincoln foresaw his own assassination. I think what Julia Grant “foresaw” concerning her husband is relevant too. Why to dismiss or ignore it?

[RJNorton]

Kees, you are doing an excellent job of changing my mind, but I am still wavering somewhat as part of me still agrees with Herb. Kees, I would ask you if Julia was so overwhelmingly worried about Ulysses' safety why did she let him ride with Mary in the carriage on the night of the 13th? Wouldn't this be very dangerous as shown by Booth's ability to ride close and harass the Grants' carriage the afternoon of the 14th? I also wonder if it's possible Julia wanted to keep her dislike of Mary out of her memoirs (for whatever reason). Possible?

[HerbS]

Maybe Mrs.Grant just wanted to get out of"Dodge"as fast as they could.Or,maybe,Mrs.Grant knew something we don't know.Great speculation though!?

[loetar44]

(10-08-2014 01:03 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Kees, you are doing an excellent job of changing my mind, but I am still wavering somewhat as part of me still agrees with Herb. Kees, I would ask you if Julia was so overwhelmingly worried about Ulysses' safety why did she let him ride with Mary in the carriage on the night of the 13th? Wouldn't this be very dangerous as shown by Booth's ability to ride close and harass the Grants' carriage the afternoon of the 14th? I also wonder if it's possible Julia wanted to keep her dislike of Mary out of her memoirs (for whatever reason). Possible?

Emma Dent Casey, daughter of Julia’s brother Frederick Dent, told that Julia had her premonitory dream of disaster for April 14 in the night of April 13. Julia woke in the morning of April 14 with an uneasy feeling and a strong desire to return to the Grant’s home, because she feared that her husband was in great danger in Washington. That’s de story which is told in de family Grant.

I don’t know why Julia kept her dislike of Mary out of her memoirs. She was a forgiving woman. She must have felt quite humiliated by Mary (think of Ord’s incident), but in her memoirs she wrote that Mary’s behavior was due to extreme fatigue from all of the traveling, and was not a result of her sickly jealousy. And Julia thought the incident was greatly exaggerated. She never spoke about it.

If you want to believe the story which is told in the family Grant, the Grants did not leave Washington because of Mary, but because of Julia’s premonitory dream.

Roger it is by no means my intention to change your opinion in this. I myself am not a strong believer in premonitory dreams, but I also don’t want to exclude them as a possibility, because a lot of people really do believe in them. I know a lot of them. But bear in mind such dreams are just what they are: beliefs and not facts. So you believe, or you don’t believe. I myself doubt, but I tend to believe that all kinds of feelings have played a role here, not just one. I mean that aversion to Mary certainly played a role, as did the fear of another incident. But I also believe that Julia's feeling that something intangible was in the air was also a reason of the hasty depart. Remember that Julia Grant was a very sensitive woman. The question is was it the prime reason?