Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"

[LincolnMan]

Welles provided such great detail. It really makes you feel you were there. Yes, it is surprising that he doesn't mention any comment at all. He doesn't mention the prayer by the minister either, apparently.

[Gene C]

Fido

[LincolnMan]

Fido checking in?

[L Verge]

Judging by the wings and halo, I think Fido is voting for "angels."

[LincolnMan]

Duh...how'd I miss that! I'll be dog gone...

[HerbS]

Ages-Eternity-Forever-Always-Imbeded!

[LincolnMan]

May Lincoln forever be...

[Eva Elisabeth]

Personally I would prefer the term "ages" - I can't imagine Abraham Lincoln could have seen himself being part of such scenery:
   
(Part of "The last judgement" by Michelangelo - "The angles pull the Saints into heaven".)
As Herb says:"Ages-Eternity-Forever-Always-Imbeded!"

[LincolnMan]

Would RTL have been involved in the choice of the word in the quote?- because the phrase in the Lincoln tomb uses the word "ages."

[L Verge]

This may have been answered before, but when did the Stanton quote in full (using either "ages" or "angels") first appear in print?

I tend to lean more towards the word originally being "angels." It just seems to be a more instinctive reference made on the spur of the moment at the time of death. For some reason, "ages" seems more thought-out and oratorical to me.

[Anita]

I'm with Laurie. Stanton spoke at the time of death , a sacred moment when Lincoln's soul would have been lifted up by angels. At a moment like that who thinks of the"ages".

[Gene C]

I agree. Stanton had lost his wife when she was young and a young daughter. I think he would think of angels at a time like this

[RJNorton]

(10-18-2013 01:24 PM)L Verge Wrote:  ....when did the Stanton quote in full (using either "ages" or "angels") first appear in print?

I believe the first time this phrase was in print was in Nicolay and Hay's 1890 biography of Lincoln. Hay was present at the deathbed and wrote that Stanton used the word "ages." Years later, James Tanner, who acted as Stanton's stenographer at the Petersen House, wrote a short pamphlet titled "The Passing of Lincoln." In it Tanner wrote "ages," but I think the debate began when the Kunhardts, in "Twenty Days," mis-copied Tanner's "ages" and incorrectly used "angels" in their book. Tanner has several published articles on this matter and always used the word "ages." It gets confusing as I believe one of the doctors at Lincoln's bedside said "angels," and claimed Tanner had actually departed the premises by the time Lincoln died.

I think the vast majority of historians accept "ages" because Hay was at the deathbed.

Personally I go with Hay's recollection and feel "ages" is what Stanton said.

Yet this is really another of those situations we have discussed often on the forum - relying on folks' reminiscences many years after the fact.

Here is an excerpt from an article Tanner wrote for the National Republic in August 1926:

[BettyO]

I vote for "Angels"....especially in lieu of the fact that Victorians saw Angels as being the ultimate "heavenly" expression in mourning literature and rituals of the period. Stanton, like Laurie and Gene said, had lost not only wife and daughter, but his brother as well, tragically to suicide. However, "Ages" does have a nice ring to it as Tanner and RTL stated....

[LincolnMan]

Again, I'm struck by the fact that "ages" is inscribed in the tomb- which to my mind means it carried more weight- at least by the powers that were involved in the decision.