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Mary's Reputation
02-26-2013, 08:25 PM
Post: #134
RE: Mary's Reputation
Laurie, I agree with your assessments, and I also agree with the earlier post on Mary's good attributes that were ignored by Washington society (and many others, then and since).

I really believe that too much has been made of Mary's faults and failings, and far too little on her good qualities. She was well-read, well-educated, well-spoken, and politically astute, traits which were few and far between in women of the 19th-century, even those of the higher social standing that Mary had.

She was also highly maternal and deeply loved children, particularly her own. To me, those are great qualities to have.

Did she have flaws? Yes, and obvious ones. But, I think too much has been made of those, to her detriment.

Also, I find it interesting that she compares so poorly to other First Ladies, at least in the eyes of some historians. First Ladies, on the whole, are a headstrong, ambitious type. They have often come from the higher echelons of society, and are accustomed to that style of living.

Many have not brought nice attributes to the position. Nellie Taft was highly ambitious and had her eye on the White House since helping out as a teenager to Lucy Hayes in that administration. While her husband was not particularly interested in being President, she wanted it very much, and made that very clear.

Ida McKinley, who suffered from epilepsy and other ailments, was very spoiled; William McKinley would often have to let her win at card games to keep her happy (reflective of his great devotion to her). These are just a couple of examples.

I've wondered if some of Mary's lower moments, such as City Point, would have been handled differently by other First Ladies. I'm not so sure they would have.

In recent years, First Ladies of both parties have given critics reason to chirp, often with justification. I'm not telling anyone how to vote, and I'm not trying to overlook the positives that many Presidential wives have brought to their positions. I'm only saying to look at it from all sides.

I believe that, to compare Mary poorly with other First Ladies is giving the other Presidential wives more credit than may be deserved, and Mary too much blame (again) for her weaknesses.
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Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 07-15-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-15-2012, 02:22 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - David Lockmiller - 06-13-2013, 02:36 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Rob Wick - 07-15-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 07-15-2012, 03:45 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-15-2012, 05:19 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - JMadonna - 07-15-2012, 06:02 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 07-15-2012, 07:31 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - JMadonna - 07-16-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 07-15-2012, 09:59 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-16-2012, 06:56 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Jennie - 07-18-2012, 04:05 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 07-16-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - brtmchl - 06-13-2013, 05:30 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 07-16-2012, 11:58 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 12-24-2012, 12:02 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 07-16-2012, 12:02 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Ashley Norman - 11-18-2012, 05:16 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 11-18-2012, 11:22 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-16-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 07-16-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 07-16-2012, 01:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-16-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-16-2012, 10:40 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 07-26-2012, 08:34 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-17-2012, 05:14 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 07:02 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-17-2012, 10:02 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 01:06 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-17-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 02:04 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 07-17-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 02:57 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 07-17-2012, 03:11 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-17-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-17-2012, 05:46 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 07-18-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 05:56 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-27-2012, 05:27 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 07-27-2012, 07:12 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 07-27-2012, 10:01 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 08-02-2012, 11:08 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 08-03-2012, 12:45 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 11-07-2012, 08:53 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 11-08-2012, 01:29 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 11-08-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 11-08-2012, 05:26 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 11-08-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 11-09-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 11-12-2012, 08:12 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 11-12-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-12-2012, 10:30 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Ashley Norman - 11-16-2012, 09:30 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-16-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 11-19-2012, 08:56 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 11-19-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 11-19-2012, 10:59 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - JMadonna - 11-19-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 11-19-2012, 11:41 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Rogerm - 11-19-2012, 11:46 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Ashley Norman - 11-19-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 11-19-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - JMadonna - 11-19-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-19-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Ashley Norman - 11-19-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 11-20-2012, 12:10 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 11-20-2012, 06:23 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 11-21-2012, 10:54 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 11-23-2012, 11:51 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 11-24-2012, 04:14 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-22-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 11-24-2012, 11:33 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mark MacKenzie - 11-25-2012, 11:47 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 11-25-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-25-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 11-25-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 11-25-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mark MacKenzie - 11-25-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Rob Wick - 11-25-2012, 01:35 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 11-25-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 11-25-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 11-25-2012, 05:59 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 11-25-2012, 06:38 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mark MacKenzie - 11-26-2012, 10:55 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Hess1865 - 12-02-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 12-03-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 12-23-2012, 09:17 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mark MacKenzie - 12-23-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 12-23-2012, 12:27 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mark MacKenzie - 12-23-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 12-24-2012, 01:24 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 12-26-2012, 10:53 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 12-27-2012, 10:41 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 12-28-2012, 12:35 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 12-29-2012, 05:29 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 12-30-2012, 02:45 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Houmes - 12-30-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 12-30-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Bill Richter - 12-30-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 12-30-2012, 06:52 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Bill Richter - 12-31-2012, 01:35 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 01-01-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 12-31-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 12-31-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 12-31-2012, 09:32 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 01-02-2013, 10:46 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna Peterson - 01-05-2013, 04:28 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 01-07-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 01-07-2013, 06:53 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 01-07-2013, 08:52 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 01-08-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 01-13-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 01-14-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 01-14-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 01-15-2013, 12:08 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 01-19-2013, 06:15 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 01-19-2013, 08:34 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 01-22-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-10-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 02-11-2013, 06:14 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Rob Wick - 02-10-2013, 07:22 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 02-10-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 02-10-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Rob Wick - 02-10-2013, 09:38 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-24-2013, 07:00 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 02-24-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 02-25-2013, 06:20 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 02-25-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-25-2013, 08:04 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 02-27-2013, 07:30 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 02-26-2013, 02:48 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 02-26-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 02-26-2013, 04:31 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 02-26-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-26-2013 08:25 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 02-26-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 02-26-2013, 08:52 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-27-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Liz Rosenthal - 02-27-2013, 11:36 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 02-27-2013, 06:06 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 02-28-2013, 10:58 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 02-28-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 02-28-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 02-28-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Liz Rosenthal - 02-28-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Bill Richter - 02-28-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 02-28-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 03-06-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 03-06-2013, 11:25 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 03-07-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Hess1865 - 03-07-2013, 11:17 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 03-08-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Deb@Library - 03-11-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 03-17-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 03-18-2013, 06:55 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Tom Emery - 03-18-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 03-18-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 03-18-2013, 03:48 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Mike B. - 03-18-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 03-18-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 03-18-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 03-18-2013, 06:40 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 03-19-2013, 08:12 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-02-2013, 10:59 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-02-2013, 11:09 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-02-2013, 11:14 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-02-2013, 11:36 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Eva Elisabeth - 06-03-2013, 12:06 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-03-2013, 05:23 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-03-2013, 05:51 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-03-2013, 12:54 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-03-2013, 02:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-03-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-03-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - J. Beckert - 06-03-2013, 05:37 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-03-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 06-03-2013, 06:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-03-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-03-2013, 10:21 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-03-2013, 10:57 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-04-2013, 05:26 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-04-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-12-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-13-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-13-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Donna McCreary - 06-13-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Eva Elisabeth - 06-13-2013, 02:48 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Laurie Verge - 06-13-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-13-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-13-2013, 03:37 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 06-13-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-13-2013, 03:48 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-13-2013, 03:55 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-13-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnMan - 06-13-2013, 04:57 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Eva Elisabeth - 06-14-2013, 03:38 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - HerbS - 09-24-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Eva Elisabeth - 09-24-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - LincolnToddFan - 09-27-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 09-27-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 06-25-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Angela - 06-26-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 06-28-2016, 08:15 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Angela - 06-29-2016, 03:39 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Susan Higginbotham - 06-28-2016, 10:10 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - ReignetteC - 06-29-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 06-29-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 10-26-2017, 10:06 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Susan Higginbotham - 10-27-2017, 12:03 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 10-27-2017, 09:40 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Gene C - 10-28-2017, 05:58 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 10-28-2017, 11:52 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 11-06-2017, 11:48 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Steve - 07-20-2018, 03:56 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - L Verge - 07-20-2018, 04:09 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Steve - 07-20-2018, 04:22 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Eva Elisabeth - 07-20-2018, 05:23 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 07-20-2018, 07:14 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Steve - 07-20-2018, 07:59 PM
RE: Mary's Reputation - kerry - 07-21-2018, 01:53 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - RJNorton - 07-21-2018, 07:02 AM
RE: Mary's Reputation - Steve - 07-21-2018, 08:12 PM

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