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New Eyewitness Account?
05-21-2018, 10:38 PM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018 11:39 PM by kerry.)
Post: #44
RE: New Eyewitness Account?
(05-21-2018 12:36 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 09:56 PM)kerry Wrote:  [1] Indianapolis Journal,Indianapolis, Marion County, 5 December 1891 [I have to double check this source]

The second person in the box was First Lieutenant Benjamin W. Loring, who watched as Leale resuscitated the President. He remembered Laura Keene entering the box and calling for brandy, though Lincoln couldn't swallow it. Long remembered the “Miss Keene disposed of it by spilling a portion upon my back while was kneeling on the floor at work over Mr. Lincoln, which accident occasioned the request that she go, and, therefore, she attended solely to Mrs. Lincoln.” He was one of the four men who carried the body.[1]


I tend to be very dubious of these claims. As far as I know there is no evidence Loring was the second person in the box (or even whether he was in the box at all). The box was so full I cannot envision a new name in it. There is also no evidence that I know of that Loring carried the body.

The book I Held Lincoln: A Union Sailor's Journey Home by Richard E. Quest makes all kinds of claims for Loring that simply are not true. Here are some of these false claims from what I could read on Amazon's website:

1. A naval officer named William Flood was the first to reach Lincoln.
2. Loring and Flood took hold of Lincoln and slid him out of the chair onto the floor.
3. Loring looked for the wound and found it in the back of Lincoln's head.
4. Keene spilled some brandy down Loring's back, and Loring yelled, "Get that woman away from here."
5. A man entered the box and proclaimed that a place for the President had been secured across the street.
6. Loring motioned for 3 men to help him carry the President.

Yeah, I was just reporting what my sources said - I can't vouch for the validity of the claims.

1. comes from Flood's interview with the NYT:

William H. Flood claimed “I remembered my sailing, and grabbed the side of the proscenium arch, shinning up it.[1] I yelled to the men to help me get up, but they didn’t do it.[2] I managed to get my hand on the edge of the box, but I couldn't get a grip because it was plush.[3] I was slipping when I felt a woman’s hand grabbing mine and helping me up.[4] That was Miss Harris . . . I finally mange to throw my leg over and vault into the box.[5] Mrs. Lincoln threw her arms around me as I got in and cried: ‘They’ve murdered papa! They’ve murdered papa! See if you can’t do something.’”[6] Flood fought back tears as he described what he saw next: Lincoln in the chair, his hands rested on his lap and his head bent forward on his chest.[7] Then another man came in and they lifted Lincoln to the ground, while Laura Keene brought water.[8]


[1] etc. February 28, 1909 NYT

4. I believe Loring said himself in an interview.

This is what I've pieced together from my research, assuming truthfulness, which I realize is a big assumption:

Rathbone was stunned, and Mary was supporting Lincoln.

Initially, no one could get into the box because the door was blocked.

Flood climbed in first, because he was the only one with the skills to scale the wall, assisted by Clara Harris, who was hanging out of the box calling for help. At some point, she removed the door block, or Rathbone did.

Loring came in either the same way or through the door, once it was cleared.

William T. Kent ran to the box. He saw two men lifting Lincoln from his chair and putting him on the floor. He went to the door and entered.

Augustus Clark was pulled up into the box by Clara Harris also. Clark saw that a few men had moved Lincoln to the floor.

A.B. Wood had chased Booth onto the stage. According to an interview with him: "Major Rathbone was at first unable to the get the door open. Wood says the he and others helped Dr. Charles A. Leale…into the box from the stage. He declares that contrary to Nicolay and Hay’s story [not sure what theirs is], Leale was the first man in the box…Wood says Laura Keene was the fifth person in the box who entered through the door…”

I am not sure if Taft or Leale (or Dale?) arrived first; it seems Taft did, but Leale claims when he entered Lincoln was not yet on the floor. Their stories conflict in a way that is not really reconcilable. Wikipedia says Leale was there first, moved Lincoln to the floor, and then Taft helped him look for the wound. Leale discovered the wound. Leale says two men helped him get Lincoln to the floor, and doesnt mention Taft arriving until later, along with Dr. King.

Taft, hearing a call for a surgeon, made himself known, and was pulled up by people in the box. I am not sure if he came in before the door was unblocked, or if he just did not know how to access the door. According to a 1909 interview with Taft, "Assistant Surgeon Charles A. Dale of the navy was already in the box, and Dr. Taft says that Dale’s quick decision in having the dying president laid flat on the floor of the box prevented his expiring of syncope within the first few minutes." So I'm not sure how this fits in with the Loring story, but maybe Dale ordered Loring and Flood to help. Taft's 1865 account says when he arrived Leale and King had it under control, and several other men were present.

Leale was waiting for the door to be unblocked, and entered. He saw Mary holding Lincoln up, and was introduced to her - possibly by Harris, but it may indicate that other men were already there. Mary asked him to take charge and moved away. Leale claimed to be the first one to enter the box, although he may have meant the first doctor, or that he was the first to enter through the door.

Rathbone asks Leale to help him with his injuries, clearly in shock. Leale ignores him and goes to Lincoln. I think Rathbone was really out of it and people later minimized this, although it clearly was in no way his fault.

Multiple witnesses reported that Laura Keene entered through the door with a glass of water, cradled Lincoln, spilled it on Loring, and was reassigned to comfort Mary. Unclear where Harris was at this time, but probably helping Rathbone tie his arm up. Possibly she was mistaken for Keene. But if she was the 5th person in the box (after Flood, Loring, Clark, and Leale, then where do Taft and Dale fit in?) If she was the fifth person to enter through the door, then Flood, Clark, Leale, and probably Loring don't count, so four other people entered through the door. Taft, Dale, possibly the captain mentioned below, and possibly Potter.

I do think the box got pretty crowded. Several doctors entered when Leale did. Col. Crawford was asked to admit no more. A Dr. Webb was said to have entered. Albert King apparently entered and proposed moving him to a saloon, which may be what 5. refers to.

Leale and three other men moved him - Clark said he was one, as did Albert Daggett. They were escorted by a captain with a sword, who volunteered to do everything he could. He later faltered in his bravery when he refused to speak to Mrs. Lincoln, with whom he'd apparently had prior encounters.

Someone called them in to the Petersen House.

Laura Keene walked ahead of Mary, who was escorted by two men according to some reports. One later claimed to be James N. Mills, a young soldier, who said he acted alone. Rathbone said he asked Major Potter. One man said she was escorted by two officers, though it seems like they would have had trouble escorting her, as she was throwing her arms around wildly.

Mary arrived at the house with Harris and Rathbone - I think Harris escorted Rathbone, who promptly passed out. Keene did not stay.

This is from the excellent Lincoln's Final Hours, which seemed to me to be pretty accurate:

"Recalling the shining blade the assassin had displayed on stage and noticing that the left shoulder of the president’s coat was saturated with blood, he supposed Mr. Lincoln had been stabbed. He loosened the president’s slip-on tie. Then he asked Major William Kent to cut away the president’s clothes with his pocketknife. No stab wound could be found. 13 With the help of some men who had entered the box, Dr. Leale laid the paralyzed president on the carpet, Mr. Lincoln’s head resting on the doctor’s spread handkerchief. Quickly passing the separated fingers of both his hands through Mr. Lincoln’s coarse, blood-matted hair, Dr. Leale touched the mortal wound."

Canavan, Kathryn. Lincoln's Final Hours: Conspiracy, Terror, and the Assassination of America's Greatest President (Kindle Locations 1324-1329). The University Press of Kentucky. Kindle Edition.

So I guess Kent eventually entered the box.

"Meanwhile, Dr. Charles Sabin Taft, another twenty-three-year-old army surgeon, had made it to the stage below. He was eyeing the wall for a way to get a foothold to the box when Daniel Beekman spotted him. “Do you want to get up there?” Beekman asked. When Charlie Taft said yes, Beekman instructed him to place one foot in his interlaced fingers and then step onto his shoulder. Dr. Taft was soon in the box. 15 Dr. Leale asked him and some others to manipulate the president’s arms to expand the thorax while he pressed on the diaphragm to draw air in and out of the lungs."

"With actor Thomas Gourlay as her guide, Laura Keene hurried through back passages to bring water to the box, but the president’s lips were already set in death when she arrived. When Keene first saw the long-limbed, muscular president lying on the carpet with his shirt cut open to waist and perhaps his arms raised, she thought how much he resembled Rembrandt’s classic The Lamentation over the Dead Christ."

"While Keene was cradling the president’s head in her lap, her manager-husband John Lutz was headed straight for her first-floor dressing room. Lutz found the door open and his wife’s diamond jewelry scattered across a dressing table. He systematically gathered up the jewels and locked the door. Then, as the president gasped for air, Lutz stormed off through the roaring crowd to upbraid his wife for her carelessness."

"Above the stage, Clara Harris was busy extending her hand to doctors and soldiers scaling the box to aid Dr. Leale. Kitty Brink was in her dressing room when she heard shouts and footsteps clumping through the scenery. When she walked out to see what was happening, she saw men being lifted to the presidential box."

"Someone suggested carrying him next door to Taltavul’s" [the tavern]

"Mrs. Lincoln scurried around the box, picking up the papers that had fallen from her husband’s hat. She turned to Captain Edwin Elzaphan Bedee, a New Hampshire volunteer, and said, “You are an officer. Won’t you take charge of these papers?” He did." So he was also there. Perhaps the one who didn't like her?

"Dr. Leale assigned Dr. Charles Sabin Taft to lift the president’s right shoulder and Dr. Albert Africanus King to carry his left. (Dr. King would later distinguish himself as one of the first physicians to recognize the link between mosquitoes and malaria.) Leale himself held the president’s head steady. Nineteen-year-old Private Jacob Soles and his fellow Pennsylvania artillerymen moved in to help— John Corey, Jake Griffiths, and William Sample. As they gently lifted the president’s body, Soles thought it felt limp in his hands."

"Major Rathbone sprang forward to escort Mrs. Lincoln to the top of the steps, but he couldn’t walk any farther. He asked some soldiers to escort her and his fiancé."

"Captain Oliver Gatch, one of the army men who had hold of the president, was surprised to hear the swarm fall silent as the bearers slowly crossed the street." Apparently Gatch and his brother Dr. Gatch's involvement is pretty suspect. They may have written themselves into the story.

Canavan, Kathryn. Lincoln's Final Hours: Conspiracy, Terror, and the Assassination of America's Greatest President (Kindle Locations 1456-1458). The University Press of Kentucky. Kindle Edition.
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New Eyewitness Account? - wpbinzel - 04-24-2018, 06:14 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-24-2018, 06:23 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-24-2018, 06:55 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - John Fazio - 04-24-2018, 07:09 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - wpbinzel - 04-24-2018, 07:40 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-24-2018, 08:46 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - smbovard - 04-24-2018, 06:35 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-25-2018, 04:02 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - wpbinzel - 04-24-2018, 09:40 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 04-25-2018, 07:26 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Gene C - 04-25-2018, 01:32 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-26-2018, 01:53 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 04-26-2018, 05:28 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-26-2018, 11:08 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-26-2018, 12:20 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-26-2018, 12:35 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-26-2018, 01:31 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-26-2018, 06:11 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Finnigan - 04-29-2018, 07:48 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-30-2018, 03:47 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Finnigan - 05-09-2018, 04:24 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-27-2018, 03:53 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 04-27-2018, 06:44 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 04-27-2018, 04:05 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 04-28-2018, 03:51 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-01-2018, 02:28 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-01-2018, 06:35 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-01-2018, 08:03 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Finnigan - 05-20-2018, 01:42 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-20-2018, 03:41 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-20-2018, 03:57 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-20-2018, 05:03 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-20-2018, 05:13 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-20-2018, 09:56 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-21-2018, 12:36 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-21-2018 10:38 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-22-2018, 03:46 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-22-2018, 12:29 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 05-23-2018, 06:25 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-23-2018, 12:46 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 05-23-2018, 01:43 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-02-2018, 11:29 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 06-03-2018, 02:57 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-21-2018, 12:36 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-21-2018, 12:59 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-22-2018, 12:49 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-22-2018, 08:15 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-23-2018, 07:55 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 05-23-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-24-2018, 04:30 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-24-2018, 11:41 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-25-2018, 01:21 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-25-2018, 04:09 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-26-2018, 04:55 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-26-2018, 01:01 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-27-2018, 04:36 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-27-2018, 04:39 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-27-2018, 01:55 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-27-2018, 02:12 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-27-2018, 06:36 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 05-27-2018, 06:43 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-28-2018, 04:24 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-28-2018, 11:21 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Finnigan - 05-29-2018, 09:21 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-29-2018, 11:15 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-29-2018, 04:05 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-30-2018, 03:59 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-30-2018, 05:54 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 05-29-2018, 11:30 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-03-2018, 01:06 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-03-2018, 02:30 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-03-2018, 05:56 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Ernesto - 06-03-2018, 07:00 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-05-2018, 04:19 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-05-2018, 04:29 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Tom Bogar - 06-05-2018, 07:35 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-05-2018, 01:11 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-05-2018, 03:02 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-05-2018, 03:10 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-05-2018, 05:12 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-05-2018, 06:22 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-07-2018, 12:35 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-07-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-06-2018, 04:19 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-06-2018, 04:39 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Gene C - 06-06-2018, 05:36 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-06-2018, 08:53 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-07-2018, 04:18 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Tom Bogar - 06-07-2018, 02:46 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-07-2018, 04:47 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-07-2018, 05:43 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-07-2018, 06:29 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - kerry - 06-08-2018, 06:23 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-25-2018, 04:40 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - John Fazio - 06-25-2018, 08:47 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-26-2018, 04:55 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - John Fazio - 06-26-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-26-2018, 03:08 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-26-2018, 04:19 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-26-2018, 03:44 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-26-2018, 04:06 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-26-2018, 05:37 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-26-2018, 07:00 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Anita - 06-27-2018, 06:31 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-28-2018, 04:10 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-28-2018, 11:57 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-28-2018, 05:41 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 06-28-2018, 07:20 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-28-2018, 08:29 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-29-2018, 04:12 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 06-29-2018, 04:35 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - AussieMick - 06-28-2018, 09:56 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 06-29-2018, 05:57 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 07-18-2018, 04:31 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 07-18-2018, 08:40 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 07-18-2018, 08:53 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - L Verge - 07-18-2018, 11:43 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - JMadonna - 07-18-2018, 11:13 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Rsmyth - 07-18-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 07-18-2018, 03:37 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 07-19-2018, 07:27 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 07-19-2018, 04:39 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 07-20-2018, 04:37 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 03-03-2020, 05:21 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - LincolnMan - 03-03-2020, 07:17 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-20-2021, 04:12 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-22-2021, 02:58 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-26-2021, 04:28 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 10-12-2021, 04:48 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Gene C - 10-12-2021, 05:18 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 10-12-2021, 10:12 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-13-2022, 12:19 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Steve - 05-13-2022, 08:18 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-14-2022, 04:11 AM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - Tom Bogar - 05-14-2022, 01:55 PM
RE: New Eyewitness Account? - RJNorton - 05-14-2022, 02:34 PM

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