Did Mary Lincoln need committal?

[HerbS]

WOW!!!!!

[LincolnToddFan]

It has just struck me that whatever Mary's fault's and defects both real and exaggerated by her detractors, she more than paid for them after Lincoln's death.

Her life after the assassination seems to have been one long agony, 18 years of degradation, humiliation, pain and loneliness.

I don't believe she ever had another day of true happiness after April 14 1865. No wonder in her letters she often expressed a longing for death.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(04-13-2014 09:46 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I don't believe she ever had another day of true happiness after April 14 1865.

She still had Tad till 1871. He was a lively, positive, energetic character, and she loved and took pride in him - don't you think as long as Tad lived she also experienced happy moments with and due to him? And - what is a day of true happiness? IMO happiness is predominantly to be found in the "little" everyday delights - like a blackbird singing from a rooftop in the golden setting sun of a quiet, peaceful evening. She travelled Europe, and sure travelling, the impressions of all the different landscapes and sights, distracted her at times and provided such touching moments.

[Liz Rosenthal]

(04-14-2014 09:29 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:46 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I don't believe she ever had another day of true happiness after April 14 1865.

She still had Tad till 1871. He was a lively, positive, energetic character, and she loved and took pride in him - don't you think as long as Tad lived she also experienced happy moments with and due to him? And - what is a day of true happiness? IMO happiness is predominantly to be found in the "little" everyday delights - like a blackbird singing from a rooftop in the golden setting sun of a quiet, peaceful evening. She travelled Europe, and sure travelling, the impressions of all the different landscapes and sights, distracted her at times and provided such touching moments.

Eva: You're right that, for many people, the "little" things in life provide happiness. However, for someone with chronic depression, the "little" things would not make a difference. Things that should provide feelings of happiness will not have that effect in a chronically depressed person.

[Gene C]

I believe Mary Lincoln died the slow death of a broken heart. Not just the death of her husband, but also the death of three children and perceived betrayel by one of her best friends (Elizabeth Keckley) and her surviving son, Robert. She did managge to live 11 years after Tad died.

If you add her physical aches and pains and the side effects of the medication she was taking, she was an amazingly determined and strong willed woman. She definately was not a quiter, but also someone who needed a lot of personal attention and support. As my wife would say, "she was a high maintenance women" She deserves better than the way Herndon and most writers have portrayed her

[LincolnToddFan]

(04-14-2014 09:29 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:46 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I don't believe she ever had another day of true happiness after April 14 1865.

She still had Tad till 1871. He was a lively, positive, energetic character, and she loved and took pride in him - don't you think as long as Tad lived she also experienced happy moments with and due to him? And - what is a day of true happiness? IMO happiness is predominantly to be found in the "little" everyday delights - like a blackbird singing from a rooftop in the golden setting sun of a quiet, peaceful evening. She travelled Europe, and sure travelling, the impressions of all the different landscapes and sights, distracted her at times and provided such touching moments.

Yes, she definitely took pride and comfort in having Tad with her. Robert too(until the insanity trial). And the birth of her first grandchild and namesake thrilled her. But was she truly happy? No, I don't believe so. Most or all of her letters reflect an overriding gloom and sadness even when Tad was with her and even before her estrangement from Robert. Remember that they did not have a permanent home and lived in boardinghouses and hotels, which humiliated her. She was constantly worried about money. Her headaches plagued her. She wrote to several friends that it was only the presence of her sons in her life that kept her from wanting to die.

As Liz has pointed out when viewed from a haze of grief, depression and illness, sunshine and flowers do not necessarily reflect the glory they otherwise would.

At Mary's funeral, the minister likened Abraham and Mary Lincoln to two trees that had grown intertwined. One tree was struck by lightening and was killed outright, the other seemed on the outside to continue to live but in fact had died as well. I think that described Mary's situation perfectly.

[RJNorton]

(04-14-2014 08:35 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  At Mary's funeral, the minister likened Abraham and Mary Lincoln to two trees that had grown intertwined. One tree was struck by lightening and was killed outright, the other seemed on the outside to continue to live but in fact had died as well. I think that described Mary's situation perfectly.

Toia, thank you very much for mentioning Dr. James A. Reed's eulogy from Mary's funeral. The only book I own which I think includes the text of the eulogy in its entirety is Dr. Temple's Abraham Lincoln: From Skeptic to Prophet. From p. 401 here is a small portion of what Reverend Reed said (which includes the story you cited):

"When among the Allegheny mountains last summer, I saw two tall and stately pines standing on a rocky ledge, where they, had grown so closely together as to be virtually united at the base, their interlocking roots entering the same rock cavities, and penetrating the same soil. There they had stood for years with intertwining branches and interlocking roots, braving in noble fellowship the mountain storms. But the taller of the two had, years before, been struck by a flash of lightning, that had gone to its very roots, shattering it from top to bottom, and leaving it scarred and dead.

The other, apparently uninjured, had survived for some years, but it was evident from the appearance of its leaves that it, too, was now quite dead. It had lingered in fellowship with its dead companion, but the shock was too much for it. In their sympathetic fellowship and union, both trees had suffered from the same calamity. They had virtually both been killed at the same time. With the one that lingered, it was only slow death from the same cause. So it seems to me today, that we are only at death placing his seal upon the lingering victim of a past calamity."

[Eva Elisabeth]

(04-14-2014 10:00 AM)Gene C Wrote:  If you add her physical aches and pains and the side effects of the medication she was taking, she was an amazingly determined and strong willed woman. She definately was not a quiter, but also someone who needed a lot of personal attention and support. As my wife would say, "she was a high maintenance women" She deserves better than the way Herndon and most writers have portrayed her

Gene, love your wife's metaphor. I totally agree on all this. Regarding she might have suffered from depressions (rather from bipolar disorder), she was extremely active (just think of her travels). Also after Tad's death she took some comfort in her friendship and correspondance to her grandnephew Edward Lewis Baker Jr.

(04-14-2014 08:35 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Her headaches plagued her.

Right now I can't check where, but I read she didn't suffer from headaches anymore in the last portion of her life.

Just to clarify: I don't doubt she suffered from depressions or meant she was happy in general. I rather think there still might have been certain moments and experiences that touched her in a positive way.

[LincolnToddFan]

Eva Elizabeth,

When I first read that eulogy of Dr. Reed's some time ago I wept and now today reading it in it's entirety, I am not embarrassed to admit I am crying again. It really does describe the Lincolns perfectly. It's beautiful in an awful, painful way.

Thanks so much for taking the time to print it out, especially today...the 149th anniversary of the tragedy.

[DanielC]

(04-14-2014 10:00 AM)Gene C Wrote:  I believe Mary Lincoln died the slow death of a broken heart. Not just the death of her husband, but also the death of three children and perceived betrayel by one of her best friends (Elizabeth Keckley) and her surviving son, Robert. She did managge to live 11 years after Tad died.

If you add her physical aches and pains and the side effects of the medication she was taking, she was an amazingly determined and strong willed woman. She definately was not a quiter, but also someone who needed a lot of personal attention and support. As my wife would say, "she was a high maintenance women" She deserves better than the way Herndon and most writers have portrayed her

---

Spot on Gene. Outliving one child is bad enough, and to lose a spouse in such a manner as she did, would be devastating.

[Lincoln Wonk]

Bill, Mary Lincoln lost three brothers, a beloved brother-in-law, her husband and her son Willie all within the four-year span of the Civil War. I'd hate to think how I'd act if I lost six family members in four years. Mary was odd for the 19th Century -- a strong, intelligent, outspoken and well-educated woman and a talented mimic.

[HerbS]

I think all of your comments are"right on" about Mary Lincoln's life.She was a candidate for"Enough already God".I also feel that she was a PTSD victim of her era!

[CJSchoonover]

I agree with all the above posts. She most certainly had a hard life with her three kids dying and witnessing her husbands death. She didn't seem to ever be happy again.

[Gene C]

Here is an interesting page from Abraham Lincoln Online titled "Mary Lincoln's Stay At Bellevue Place"

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/linc...llevue.htm

[Rob Wick]

I should never try to post early in the morning. I mistakenly put my comment about Jean Baker here, when it should have gone into the books thread.

Best
Rob