J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really??

[Gene C]

Appreciate your comments, John in post 26.

It gets said a lot, but never too much, it is nice to be a part of being able to communicate and learn from such a knowlegeable and friendly group of people.

[Laurie Verge]

Your thoughts above on how we need to consider the role of Northern Copperheads are the reasons why Bill and I have clung to the hope that Dixie Reckoning would ultimately be published -- but I want some serious re-writing done as far as the style in which the material is presented so that the really important points jump off the page at you without all the superfluous rhetoric that indicates (to me) a writer who is trying to impress people with how smart he is!

I then hope that the so-called "original" papers and files will be turned over to respectable scholars and archivists for intense study and verification or refutation. I believe that this will require not only assassination scholars, but general Civil War and 19th-century social historians who are able to find careless phrases, etc. that suggest forgeries. This is largely how the transcripts of the "lost pages of the diary" were exposed and how Steers, McPherson, and Chaconas have worked to debunk the Neff assertions.

Personal comment about Booth's statement about returning to Washington to clear his name: For years, I wanted it to mean that he was going to expose his bosses. I think I have resigned myself to thinking that he meant he was going to announce his political and social reasons for assassinating Lincoln in an open forum.

[scldrgnfly]

This is all so fascinating!! Something I found, but I wasn't lucky enough to find a living relative, was some information about Mary Watson's husband, Dr. Carvell....he was from Nova Scotia...I'd love to know how she met him, noting the Demill connection to Nova Scotia.

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, in the 1870 or it could have been 1880 NY, NY census there were two J. J. Reford's, one a laborer on North Carolina Street, and the second on W. 53rd Avenue who was a retired lawyer both around 53 years of age....They both listed as John J. Reford.

Was "Paris" a known code word for Richmond? I should think the negative connotations might have caused it not to be used.

I have a question about the interpretation of Richmond as Paris, but it's the positive thinker in me speaking. One, in Greek mythology, while Paris was a fighter, the gods said he was actually going to be the kingdom's downfall, and he was supposed to be killed before he could cause it. We all know what the Trojan Horse did. Second, if you used Shakespeare, another possible choice, Paris lost Julliette to Romeo because, he was cold lover.....BUT, what about Quebec, or Montreal?? Ile is island in French isn't it...Napoleon was banished to Alba, an island...could there have been an island they had in mind to transport their "War Horses?" Could the Ile just indicate the necessity of transversing water?

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The sad thing about some of our confusion lies in the fact we aren't dealing with the Pope...the rest of us are fallible. Memories can go and people lie, even on the witness stand...all we can do is "trust, but verify." There I go with my homage to the '70's.

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I am so sorry! Thank you, John for that great information! Also, I didn't realize there was a Cawood no escape tour! It must be cool!

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To Gene's post # 24,

I don't really know how many people actually wanted Lincoln dead, but I would imagine there were a whole lot of people who wanted Lincoln out of a position of control. He was taking quite a bit of power into his hands, that some people didn't think the Constitution allowed the President to have..."deja vu again?"

I haven't read any of Neff's things, but that note of R. D. Watson's sent me off on that trail and what is curious is how that 178 1/2 Water Street address connects to people and things.

I did find that one of the Demill ships was beached in Charleston to use as a wharf to unload soldiers in 1861, the "Peter Demill."

[RJNorton]

(05-08-2013 10:58 PM)scldrgnfly Wrote:  Also, if my memory serves me correctly, in the 1870 or it could have been 1880 NY, NY census there were two J. J. Reford's, one a laborer on North Carolina Street, and the second on W. 53rd Avenue who was a retired lawyer both around 53 years of age....They both listed as John J. Reford.

Good morning, Martha. According to Rick Stelnick's article in the January 2010 Surratt Courier the Reford we are talking about was a James Jacob Reford. Mr. Stelnick writes that when James Jacob Reford was asked his job description his response was that "he was a professional minder - a minder of the Demill family business."

Mr. Stelnick also writes that Reford found John Wilkes Booth to be "a kindred spirit."

[Laurie Verge]

A quick note back to the word "ile:" Steers translates the handwriting as being the word "oil."

[scldrgnfly]

Oh, about the "Ile" as "oil," I had forgotten that, thanks, Laurie. VERY interesting job description, Roger. It does seem odd to me it has taken so long for these gentlemen to come to the forefront.

We know JWB' s trunk stayed in storage at the National for quite a while. Could it have been tampered with while there...to throw people off the real scent? I find it so interesting the letter(s) were left in there by the searchers. It's almost if the trunk was really kept there for safekeeping, to narrow the scope of the search for conspirators. It is so interesting that it didn't just disappear. It makes one wonder who knew it was there, and why wasn't it offered up, especially since, those being connected with Booth and the Conspiracy were falling like flies.

ESPECIALLY!!!!! Since there were SO MANY souvenir hunters out there....who could have resisted THAT temptation!!???!! I have SERIOUS doubts about myself! Lol!

Could the J. J. Reford letter be a "red herring?"Is everyone positive of J. J. Reford's true existence?? Just a bit of trivia: Smoked herrings were used to train dogs for fox hunting. They would drag the smoked herrings, which were red, and get the dogs to chase the scent then mix the scent with a rabbit's, and/or fox's. When they could discern the mammals' scents, they were ready to follow the right scent. They no longer needed the "red herring," hence false clue.

It's just so odd no one really ever mentions him that I know of.

[Laurie Verge]

It was my understanding that Col Ingraham, a provost marshal for the area in northeast D.C. sent a Lt. Tyrrell to Booth's room on April 15. Tyrrell found the trunk and its assorted contents. He removed the papers and some other things and took them to Col. Ingraham. It was an empty trunk that remained in storage at the National for such a long time. The good stuff was in custody the whole time.

[Gene C]

(05-09-2013 11:15 AM)Laurie Verge Wrote:  It was an empty trunk that remained in storage at the National for such a long time. The good stuff was in custody the whole time.

Didn't the gov't put that up for auction, like they do with all the stuff they seize, along with a bunch of confiscated fingernail clippers from airports?

[scldrgnfly]

Oh! I am sorry. I thought they left quite a few things in it. Please forgive me! In my excitement, I forgot to double check my thoughts.